Farkle-Mpls Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hello. I just discovered photo.net and this particular forum this evening. Wow ... I have been shooting Canon gear since high school (1977, following in Dad's footsteps where he started shooting Canon gear when stationed in Korea in the mid 1950s, purchasing it in Seoul). Anyway, I still collect the lenses and shoot the cameras. When I discovered this forum, 4 hours of my life vanished. What a wealth of information! Thank you to everyone who contributes and keeps this forum -- and FD cameras and gear! -- alive and being used. On to my question ... I was shooting my 1984 F-1 and the photos were coming back consistently overexposed. I grabbed a gray card and tested my other cameras -- another F1 and a hand held meter included -- and the 1984 F-1 registered 1/2 stop less light then ALL the other devices I tested. The battery is not the issue as I swapped batteries between the F-1s and the problem didn't "follow" the battery (the battery is new as well). I used the same lens, if that matters. ASA and shutter speed were all set identically. The camera was CLA'd about 8 years ago and I'm willing to have that done again. Is this a common problem? Ideas? Also, unrelated question but looking at the second F-1 I just bought, the serial # in the film chamber looks like V904R ... could that be right? It's hard as heck to read but, if it is right, can someone interpret build date for me? Thank you! Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_s Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Carl, hi. If the meter response is still linear, I think you simply need your meter recalibrated. Others will have recommendations on Canon FD techs in your neck of the woods, or you can find one by searching the archives. Alternatively, you could just set your exposure index half a stop lower when you're using that camera. <p> Are you using slide film? I shoot negatives only these days, and I doubt if I'd notice a half stop of overexposure, even on stuff I process myself. <p> <A HREF="http://www.canonfd.com/agedet.htm">Canon date codes</A> are as you know easy to decipher, and your F-1N is from September 1981. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_s Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Sorry, I meant set the E.I. half a stop higher of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baris_john Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Welcome to the forum! <br><br> <i>ASA and shutter speed were all set identically.</i> <br><br> You are getting different exposures from two cameras at the same shutter speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkle-Mpls Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thanks for your responses. Yes, for now I have adjusted the E.I. to accommodate. Good suggestion to check the "linearity" of the metering system: I will do that. Does anyone know what causes the meter to go out of calibration? I noticed it on print film (Kodak 160VS) and it was pretty subtle. The only reason I noticed it at all was because I was shooting my (1984) F-1 against my EOS 1v to perform some lens quality tests between an FD 2.8 28mm and a Tamron 28-105mm F2.8 EOS zoom (the zoom was closed all the way to 28mm). Identical film and same focal length. I set both cameras to Av and the F-1 was consistently picking a slower shutter speed. The pictures the 1v took looked better balanced for light as well. Thus my lens test turned into a light meter test as well. Incidentally, after scanning the negs, the FD 28mm had better clarity than my "modern" (2001) Tamron zoom. As a side-bar, I'd be interested in peoples' experiences with Tamron EOS zooms. This was supposed to be a nicer zoom, offering a constant F2.8 through the entire focal range. Over the past couple years, I've come to the conclusion that it is not a "really nice" lens, but just an OK one (image clarity is iffy). I bought the lens new and have always taken very good care of it. I have not tested clarity at different F-stops or zoom ranges but depending on comments from this forum, I may be compelled to do that. I appreciate your interpretation of the date code -- thank you! Sept 1981 was a good month: I had just started my senior year of high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent_peri Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 What battery is in the F1N? Way back in the early 1980s when I had a couple, they were taking mercury batteries, now BANNED. I'm thinking of getting a pair of F-1N bodies for old times' sake and am interested in which battery to use. I've heard that the wrong battery will cause the meter to be off 1/2 to 1 stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_s Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Vincent-- F-1N, the post-1981 version, takes a regular 6V battery of the PX28 (4SR44) persuasion. They're common batteries for electronic cameras, and still very easy to get-- I use 'em in my F-1Ns, my AE-1P, and my big Mamiya RZ67. Both prior all-mechanical versions of the F-1 used mercury batteries. There are many workarounds for this-- search photo.net or the Web in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent_peri Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 "Vincent-- F-1N, the post-1981 version, takes a regular 6V battery of the PX28 (4SR44) persuasion." "Both prior all-mechanical versions of the F-1 used mercury batteries." I had the two versions that took mercury batteries. I'll have to do some research on the final version to see it it's too automated compared to what I was used to. Thanks for the battery info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkle-Mpls Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thanks for bringing the battery issue up. I too had heard about that issue (exposure metering being off due to battery voltage differences) so I swapped batteries between my F-1s. The problem did NOT follow the battery so I don't think this is a battery issue. But it's good to see the discussion which resulted from your post. Perhaps the rumored inaccuracies were only for the first two models of F-1 bodies (which took the older mercury battery). Thank you for your ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psul_aul Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Carl: what metering pattern were you using with your F1N, and was it the same as the one you were using with your 1v when you compared them? The F1N standard screen is a center weighted partial spot meter. There also available screens that allow for true spot metering. When you compare, make sure that both cameras are using the same metering pattern. Vincent: The F1N can be used as a true manual camera, with match needle metering. You have to add a motor drive to get shutter priority mode, and a special "AE" view finder to get aperature priority. Its a great camera to use in full manual mode, non automated mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_kushner2 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Vincent, a good read on the New F1N. You don't need the AE Finder to shoot AE but you won't be able to know what shutter speed is set at. Recommend the FN Winder for shooting in the portrait mode. Lightweight & you don't need AA batteries to operate shutter. Only drawback is no mirror lockup. http://www.canonfd.com/newf1world/f1worldind1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent_peri Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 "Vincent: The F1N can be used as a true manual camera" It looks like I'll have to do some research into this before I jump in. (It would help if the stock market cooperates, too!) I guess I'll need to find the different manuals for each F-1 version so I'll know what works best for me. Thanks for all the info so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkle-Mpls Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 Psul: I apologize as I neglected to mention the metering setting when I was testing my exposures. The 1v was set to center weighted metering. I just now pulled the screen out of my F1N and it is labeled as "Canon FN Japan AE". I'll look up what that means exactly, knowing there are different metering patterns available but I assume it's probably what was typically sold with the AE Finder FN. Does that provide any insight? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_e2 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Another thing to be aware of with the New F-1 is the meter pattern employed by the screen. Screen designations starting with "A" are averaging pattern screens. Those starting with "P" are partial (or semi-spot) patterns (like the older, fully mechanical F-1's) and those beginning with "S" are spot meter pattern (3% of the frame). In the last two, the meter pattern is clearly seen through the VF by noting the darker areas. That is the beam splitter which deflects light back to the meter cell. The standards for meter calibration are flexible enough that 1/2 stop is easily within tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkle-Mpls Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Thanks Mark. I was compelled to do more digging and found this useful site: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/metering/screens/allscreens.htm which described in detail all the focusing screens available for the New F-1. I probably want a "PE" screen instead of an "AE" which I will look for on eBay (any suggestions for other sources?) Thanks again for all the helpful commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_e2 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 And a little more ... make sure the exposure compensation dial is set to zero. If it is, you can customize your meter "response" for "free" by setting this while you set the EI to the exact value from the film box. I have at least one example of every F-1 model and for the New F-1, all of mine have exhibited a shutter brake bounce if they are not regularly exercised. Leaving them cocked or uncocked seems to make no difference. It's good to realize that both aperture and shutter priority metering functions are built into the camera body. The AE Finder Fn makes it possible to see what the camera will do. If you have no motor drive/winder but want shutter priority, simply short the two contacts on the baseplate together. As you set an aperture on the lens, the shutter speed will change. Typically, no issues occur as the battery weakens. The camera is generally work/no work. Except for battery life, the silver oxide battery and alkaline battery are both fine, with the silver oxide providing much more life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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