How do you organize the digital images you give to clients?

[think27]

My wedding and engagement photos and self portrait? As a woman first and photographer second.

 

As to the clients.... You can absolutely never know which ones they will like. I've taken photos of brides that

I thought were breathtaking and perfect, flattering etc... only to find out it was the bride's least favorite

because of some imagined flaw (well not imagined but it was not her favorite side of her face or she doesn't like

her teeth or whatever).

 

I have a story I tell my couples. Way back in the early 90's I did a wedding of a girl that I actually knew

pretty well. She and her husband were lots of fun and very animated. She was leaning against a tree and he was

behind her on the right side close to her cheek and saying funny things - obviously he said something hilarious

because Ann laughed out load with her head thrown back a bit and her mouth way way open. You could see the

fillings in the back teeth. Well, I loved the shot because it was "so Ann"... But I almost did not put it in

the album because it was not "flattering" exactly although it was so much fun and made me laugh - that I put it

in the album after almost pitching it.

 

Well guess what. Ann, her family and relatives ordered that exact shot in 8x10 and it was their absolute

favorite shot. It was also the shot she sent to the paper. There were lots more pretty shots of Ann but this one

was full of life. I know that contradicts what I said about vanity but it is really kind of the same thing. We

never know which shot they are going to love and think is "perfect". To Ann - that was the "perfect" shot. If I

held back and or selected what "I" thought was the best shots - she wouldn't have that picture.

 

So when I tell my couples that story- It is my way of explaining why I give them everything except eyes closed,

flash failure, movement blur etc.. I let them know I won't decide and over-edit because of that story - what

"looks" good to me or what doesn't. This is in part how I explain "proofs". If they hate a shot they can pull

it out but I'm not going to second guess. They totally understand.

[cjogo]

I leave most the editing to the B&G ---except for the occasional eyes closed / soft focus > usually 33 out of 36

exposure ~~are included on the CD --They keep a RAW archive and an edited Jpeg (8X12) .... they can drop/drag the

order of their fancy.

[William Michael]

A firm answer. Thank you. I think your answer is very interesting: and perhaps not necessarily gender specific but

applicable to most of us when we see (or hear) `I`, reproduced.

 

It is also my experience that clients choose their Albums and Enlargements for many reasons and it is sometimes

difficult to know exactly the fine detail of those reasons, but I have found it usually safe to assume that almost

always:

 

a) firstly personal to them (such as if it is a group image).

 

b) secondly in response to one of the basic emotions, and not necessarily vanity: by that I mean it could be the

image triggers the recall of a particularly strong feeling of love or joy, for example.

 

I have noticed that point (a) sometimes can be overruled, when children parents and their children are in the

photograph, and the parents are buying.

 

I think that being aware of the reasons clients have for making their purchasing decisions and addressing those

matters primarily, will create a more successful enterprise than merely having any arbitrary number of images, for the

client to view.

 

Or stated another way: the number of images the photographer shows the clients, should satisfy the Client`s wants,

which IMO should be based upon their expectations previously formed or reformed. The viewing number should not

be just any `number` as such, but it should be rationally thought out and generally, prescribed.

 

One prescription does not suit all clients, nor businesses.

 

WW

[steve_c.5]

Mary makes the exact point I'd make about giving lots of images. I always err on the side of giving too many than not enough, for the very reasons she states. My experience is the same, and I'm a man.

 

As for my compatriot William W, in the term "old", I only meant that you and I go back a ways in our always pleasant exchanges on this forum. As you probably surmised, I really meant nothing about your physical age, which is probably not that much more than mine. So, "old" friend, here's to you! Cheers!

[William Michael]

Cheers back.

 

WW

[russ_konrad]

One thought that everyone should consider:

 

If you deliver 100 images for $2,000 - each of those images are extremely valuable and precious to the customer.

 

If you deliver 2000 images for $2,000 - the value of each image is considerably less.

 

"Quantity versus Quality" is a valid concept in this discussion that many customers see in many different

services and products but yet it is a concept that some photographers have dismissed as not applicable to them

and their product.

 

Giving a customer thousands of images devalues the worth of every image and IMHO devalues the work of the

photographer.

[fotografz]

So what would be even better would be 1 image for $5000., right Russ? I like it! Sign me up : -)

 

Kidding aside, actually I'm not an advocate of machine gun shooting. Yet I must admit that my experiences tend to mirror Mary's in terms of client reactions. It is for that very reason that I tend to provide

a fair amount of images over-all. While processing, if there are 3 shots in a sequence, it's a no-brainer to correct one and sync the other two to provide the client with choice.

 

But, I do segregate a much smaller amount of "photographer's" selects ... often these are used to make a story-telling slide show set to music that depicts a wedding in much more detail than would be

shown in an album (this has proved to be a money-making add-on once the client sees it.) Conversely, when it comes to the album, if I cannot tell the story in 30 to 50 images then I feel that I've failed.

 

We also have to account for different styles of shooting. For example, C Jo produces approx. 200 images. However, his approach tends to be more controlled in nature. For me, 200 keeper images of that

type are lot. My style differs greatly from his. Neither is better than the other, just different ... which provides clients the luxury of choice.

 

All of this does not absolve the photographer of applying dicipline to their shooting as well as editing. 20 rapid fire captures does not assure that "magic moment" will be one of them. In fact, it most likely

won't be there. Careful observation, anticipation, and timing is a far better way to grab that nano second of time that expresses volumes in a single image. That is what "still" photography is all about.

[russ_konrad]

<b>"...All of this does not absolve the photographer of applying dicipline to their shooting as well as editing. 20 rapid fire captures does not assure that "magic moment" will be one of them. In fact, it most likely won't be there. Careful observation, anticipation, and timing is a far better way to grab that nano second of time that expresses volumes in a single image. That is what "still" photography is all about."</b>

<p>

Well said Marc!

<p>

Another thought on the same subject:

<p>

If you shoot an 8 hour wedding and you deliver 1000 images to your customer - you would have need to have averaged 1 GOOD shot every 28 seconds (8 hours x 60 minutes x 60 seconds = 28,800 seconds divided by 1000 images = 1 image every 28.8 seconds) And that is only the GOOD shots. How many shots did the photographer edit out of that many? 1500? 2000? 3000?

<p>

We shoot every wedding with at least two photographers. Both of us started a long time ago with film and we have the same philosophy that Marc posted above - <b><i>"...Careful observation, anticipation, and timing..."</b></i>. Even with two of us shooting all day - we only end up with around 1000 shots total.

<p>

<b>"...So what would be even better would be 1 image for $5000...."</b>

<p>

Yes it would!

<p>

Even though I love shooting weddings and working with people - I still enjoy landscape photography. I would love to sell one of my landscapes for $5,000! I don't market that aspect of my photography - just word of mouth - and my individual print sales have not reached that level yet.

[steve_c.5]

Russ, your analysis would be very correct, in my opinion, if all the images were the same TYPE of shot. However, with weddings, there are many different TYPES of images captured. I usually shoot 600 to 1200 images at a typical wedding. Some are candids. Some are creative posings. Some are traditional formals. Some are details shots. Some are PJ. Among those, some would be very marketable in the traditional sense, and some not so much. Some, you'd want to do on canvas and hang on a wall, others you wouldn't. So each image doesn't have the same "value" in the traditonal saleable sense. However, ALL of them have value to my clients, because they're all moments from their wedding day. You can't assign the same monetary value to each of them, but when I book an event, I'm giving a price that pays for my expertise in creating all of these images, and my clients own the result.

[think27]

Russ - you say: If you deliver 100 images for $2,000 - each of those images are extremely valuable and precious to the customer. If you deliver 2000 images for $2,000 - the value of each image is considerably less."

 

Interesting way of looking at it but I don't think in terms of price per image but the whole product - the story and the quality is there even in the quantity which is so appreciated by the client for reasons I stated before.

 

I feel what I do is almost video-like coverage of the day on film. I've been shooting for a long time and sometimes it would be 2-3 weddings in a weekend. When I started I only shot 12 or so rolls of film. But as time passed and my abilities improved - I could anticipate/grab and capture much faster and where I used to "miss" great shots - I was ready for them and often shot in a series of quick shots to tell a story. In my case I'm also a "speed reader" which translates in photography in a wonderful way... I can "read" the scene, compose and shoot - and as Marc says - "anticipate" with probably more speed than some.

 

When you are in tune with the flow of each wedding and the people on a deep level and completely focused in an almost zen fashion I don't think it is unusual to have "moments" during the day where you are shooting as many as 5 or 6 shots within a 20 second "moment". I've seen some pretty well known pros shoot this way as well. When shooting someone making a toast, I'll catch normal, fun and hilarious gestures, expressions etc...I'll shoot a wide angle, grab the zoom and go in close, and turn at the right moment to shoot the couple doubling over in laughter and then zoom over to the parents laughing or an Aunt tearing up... boom boom boom. I don't think of it as "shotgun" in a negative term...it is very studied, accurate and perfectly lit and composed. I will also mention that the more weddings I shot through the years, the more critical I became of the results and yet I still only edit out 0 to 5 shots per roll. My standards are high.

 

Having said that - I don't think anyone has to prove anyone "wrong" here...

 

Just different. I think it comes down to the style. Everyone should use the style that fits them and the market they are in or the niche they've developed.

 

If you are shooting shot gun and the images are not great - you need to slow down and be more deliberate and perhaps get some more experience in anticipating the shots. If you are more of a traditional shooter that's another method and you probably end up with less shots that are picture perfect rather than photo journalistic.

 

My particular point here was to bring in another mind set to off set "absolute statements".

[steve_c.5]

Well said, Mary!

[richard_king2]

Mmm I sort them into sections prep/ceremoney/formals/reception etc

 

in addition i sort into styles or subsections B+W, Impressions, Dreams, Colour

 

Impressions and dreams are my arty styled shots, and usually limited to 12 each per wedding

[meldell]

I seperate them in to folders:

Getting Ready

Details

Ceremony

Portrait

Reception

 

I label all the images to go with the folders, ie. July26_Ceremony001, etc

 

Never had any complaints and I deliver 1000+ images!

[sara_besse]

This is better than Wimbledon!