Wide angles: Hassy or MF Rangefinder or TLR?

[max_fun]

Hi,

 

I've been flirting with MF for a while now, and I think I will

mainly be using it for portraits and landscapes.

 

I've been using Leica RFs, and I'm just stunned by the quality of

the 24mm Elmarit Asph, that I have never seen in my 35mm SLRs. I

know that wide angles is one of the benefits of the Rangefinder

system. But for some reason, I really like waistlevel finders,

especially for portraits, so I'm just wondering whether you find the

wide angles (43mm, 50mm) for maybe the Mamiya 7 is in a league above

the ones for Hasselblad? Would the Mamiya 330 be the solution?

 

Cheers!

[marck mcgill]

Well, how wide you want to go then? The widest lens for the Mamiya C serie is the 55mm...

[enw]

There simply isn't a MF system with a better and more diverse set of wide angle lenses than you will find with Hasselblad. Hasselblad offers 30mm, 40mm, 50mm and 60mm wide angles -- you'll certainly find a focal length you like within those choices. There's considerable information on the Hasselblad web site on their excellent Carl Zeiss lenses, here's a link to the datasheet for the 50mm:

 

http://www.hasselbladusa.com/Archive/documents/Downloads_files/Productsheets/CFi50.pdf

[russ_britt1]

Eric you left out the 38MM super wide. I love that lens, the superwide camera is also light, and fast to use.

[max_fun]

I know that Hassy has a great lens line up, but I don't need all that many wides. I find the

24mm Leica a really good balance between field of view and distortions. I haven't seen a

single 24mm SLR lens that gets it right.

 

I guess if the Mamiya 330 doesn't have any 43/50mm, it may not be very suitable then.

 

The Hassy would be perfect if its 43/50mm can match the Mamiya. I don't think I can do

superwides very well, so I doubt I will need anything wider than the 43mm

[jsbc]

It is very odd if you are considering a 43mm for the M7 (a 6x7) and doubt whether you need anything wider than a 43mm for Hasselblad (a 6x6). You really should look at the SWC and the new 40mm for Hasselblad.

 

If you are stunned by the Leica, which has an aspect ratio of 3:2, imagine what wideangle will be like with an aspect ratio of 1:1. However, if you do like the 24mm aspect, maybe you can also consider the Rolleiwide.

 

I own a 903SWC, and a M7 with 50mm. Before I purchase the wideangles, I used to shoot with a VC 15mm and then crop it into a square to judge the impact. My feeling is, if you can handle a 24mm on a Leica, it will be easy to adjust to any of the MF cameras.

[pavelp]

55m for MamiyaTLR is closer to 28mm in 35mm format than to 24mm.

 

You mention that you like WLF and in the same sentence you mention Mamiya 7. M7 is a rangefinder and for 43mm and 50mm lenses you will need an additional bubble finder.

 

RB67/RZ67 are SLRs (6x7) and they have 50mm lens in their lineup. That would be almost perfect match for 24mm in 35mm format (RB and RZ are quite heavy though (about 6 pounds)).

[Rob F.]

Among Hassie lenses, only the 38mm Biogon of the SWC will match the quality of the 24mm Elmarit. The horizontal angle of view will also be equivalent. In the Mamiya 7, the 50mm would be the equivalent match. I own and use the SWC, and can vouch for its performance. I haven't used the 50mm for the Mamiya 7.

[lkv]

Both Mamiya 7 and Hasselblad have the quality wide angles your looking for.<br>

You really have to decide if you give priority to waistlevel finder, or to silence and speed of

use... Also, 6x6 and 6x7 are different in the end, you can hace a preference and not want

to be croping all the time...<br>

I personaly preferred the Mamiya 7 for a long time. Now, my style is changing and I may

switch...<br>

Lenny<br>

[Ed_Ingold]

The image quality of any MF you mention will surpass any 35mm camera, including the Leica. Closed down 2 stops, these lenses resolve better than any film, and have 3-5 times the image size. Therefore, other issues prevail.

 

Weight and bulk are major considerations, as well as decorum. You can't use a MF camera with any element of surprise, and they are big and heavy. Rangefinder MF's and lenses, like the Mamiya 7, are much lighter and more compact than MF SLR's. For portraits and landscapes, however, the SLR's are much more accurate regarding composition and focus (i.e., DOF visualization).

 

For me, the Hasselblad is a good compromise, one I'm willing to pack for long distances with four or five lenses. The 50mm CF/FLE is an incredibly sharp lens - as good as the 80mm Planar - far better than the older "CT*" lens. I find the 50 is as wide as I need for landscapes. There is a 40/4 lens which, according to Zeiss, is nearly as good as the legendary 38mm Biogon (SWC).

[christopher perez]

<i>I've been using Leica RFs, and I'm just stunned by the quality of the 24mm Elmarit Asph, that I have never seen in my 35mm SLRs. </i>

<p>

For the very same reasons it would be good for you to rent or try the Mamiya 7 with one of its wide optics. The "7" works very similarly to your Leica and will be produce images that'll knock your socks off.

<p>

No matter who makes them, SLR wide angle optics are a compromise. The flapping SLR mirror sets the design parameters. Though Zeiss does a fine job of correcting as much as they can, the Mamiya optical design allows for deep-set optical designs (such as their Biogon formula 43mm, 50mm).

<p>

Seriously: try before you buy.

[mrivers]

I own the Leica 24mm and share your admiration for the quality of this lens. I traveled to

Australia this summer with 24, 35, and 75, and the best landscapes were taken with the

24mm lens.

 

I also own and use the Hassy 50mm FLE CF lens and love using this lens for landscapes. I

CHOSE the Hassy over the M6, M7 Mamiya rangefinder because I love knowing the exact

framing before I take the photo, and can't precisely frame a rangefinder. I think the

quality of the Hassy 50 is wonderful. Although the weight of the Hassy is more, I take a

tripod and other lenses as well so weight isn't the major factor. If I want light, like a

month in Australia, I take the Leica.

[henry_a]

I think the Mamiya 7 50mm is more like the Leica 24mm in its overall sharpness and lack of distortion. I previously owned the Hasselbald 50mm f4 with floating element and currently own the 50 FE f2.8. They are both very, very good but I think my Mamiya 50 is great like the Elmarit M 24mm, which I am positive is the best 24 ever made - period. The posts regarding framing might be an issue but if you are happy with your Leica framing you'll probably be OK with the Mamiya. On the other hand a Hassy SLR with a few lenses would sure team up well with your rangefinder 35mm and there is not enough difference in the lenses I've mentioned that your pictures would suffer from using any of them as they are all very fine lenses. You wouldn't go wrong with any of them.

[l_a_k_h_i_n_d_e_r]

Since you like Waist Level Finders: Rollei 6008/3/1 with 40mm Schneider is a superb choice. Small lens with floating elements. And surely no Rangefinder can match the viewfinder accuracy of a Rollei 6008/3/1 with 40mm lens!

 

Hasselblad also offers 40mm, but the lens is huge. And you have to manually adjust the floating element! However both systems are very good choices.

[norris_lam]

Similar like you, i jump from Leica M6 to Bronica RF645 and then to Hasso and finally stay at 4x5 photography. For resolution, colour and enlargement, larger film has advantages. Bonica is happier than Leica as the film size is 3 times larger and it's cheaper than M6. Hasso is happier than Bronica due to the great lens performance and the unusual square film format, but the lens are very expensive, bulky and heavy. 4x5 offers you much more lens movement and different film formats which are flexible. U will really enjoy the moment that U 'can' press the cable release !

[max_fun]

Thanks for the replies. Seems like no one's refuting that wide angles on the Mamiya7 will be better than an MF SLR. I totally understand how MF wides will still be better than 35mm, that's why I'm not just concentrating on using my Leica for landscapes. LF is just too inflexible for me at the moment, so I'm not considering it at the moment.

 

It's a shame I can't use a WLF on a rangefinder (duh!), but I guess the good thing is that the Mamiya system is still not too big, so I think I might get the 7 with a 43/50mm lens and probably a Rolleiflex for my normal photography. What do you think about this plan?

 

Cheers for the really useful feedback.

[christopher perez]

<i>...I guess the good thing is that the Mamiya system is still not too big, so I think I might get the 7 with a 43/50mm lens and probably a Rolleiflex for my normal photography. What do you think about this plan?...</i>

<p>

The Mamiya will be larger than your Leica. Obviously. But its so light and quick to use compared with other medium format cameras. Some people have said that the Mamiya 7 can be lighter than a full-zoot 35mm SLR too. So it makes for a good, fast, quick to use, similar to your Leica choice. Oh, and you get that fabulous huge 6x7 image size. :-)

<p>

You mention getting a Rolleiflex. Will this be a TLR? Or SLR? Personally I think the TLR would be great. But remember, if you crop a 6x6 image, you're back to 6x4.5. In which case I'd just use the Mamiya 7 with an 80mm standard optic.

<p>

If you don't intend on cropping 6x6, then either Rollei TLR (which can also be quick and easy to use, like the Mamiya 7) or Rollei/Hasselblad SLR square images will be sufficiently different from your current 35mm approach to "seeing" that you might get hooked on it.

[kosmoskatten]

I have used both the Hasselblad SWC with the Biogon 38/4.5 as well as the

Mamiya 7II with both 50/43mm wide angle lenses.

You will not be unhappy with either camera. I have used Leica M's and

currently use Leica R. The quality leap when using some of the best MF optics

is obvious.

 

I chose the Hassy as it suits me just fine and is quite small. The Mamiya 7II

has the advantage of having a rangefinder and the 50/4.5 is quite amazing,

possibly the best MF wide angle lens I have used, and the field of view

(25mm) matches your Elmarit well.

 

Though I settled for the Hasselblad I would still recommend the Mamiya 7 with

the 50mm lens for you.

Regards, Henke

[mark_anderson10]

I agree with Lakhinder. I use the Rollei 6000 series for everything and my two favourite

lenses at the moment are the 40 & 180 Schneiders. Man, there amazing. I just shot a

poster campaign for a film and they blew the frames up to huge proportions, the guy at

the printers apparently was very impressed with the sharpness of the images.

If money is a worry then talk to Mike @ CTrades, 661-299-6829, mention my name and

he'll look after you. Has the best prices on the planet.

Hope this helps.

Mark