Kiev 88 Shutters, Metal vs. Cloth

[jeff_swauger]

This question refers to the Kiev USA variants in particular, but am

interested in any experiences. I notice that Kiev USA has a good

price on rebuilt 88's with the metal shutters, much cheaper than the

cloth ones. The question is, are the stories about flare resulting

from the metal shutters true, or does the flare actually come from

somewhere else (i.e. not using a lens hood, bad fitting backs, etc.)?

I know from experience on other cameras that where you think flare is

coming from isn't always the case, it's not always intuitively

obvious.

 

Any experiences?

[andrew_bennett]

I have a non-Kiev USA 88 with the metal shutter. I've not had any problem (in a limited number of rolls) with noticeable flare. My camera does have internal flocking, and I've always used the lens hood, so this may have minimized any potential problems.

[jeff_swauger]

Thanks for the response. From my experience with that prime example of sophisticated photo technology, the Holga, flocking and black paint internal to the camera really seems to be the trick to controlling flare and reflections. Of course, anything helps a Holga, it makes a Kiev look like a Contax AF 645 in terms of sophistication.

 

I wonder if flocking the inside of the Kiev is hard to do yourself, or if it demands fairly extensive disassembly of the camera?

 

Currently I use a YashicaMat 124G, and have never had a flare problem (though some seem to), but I always use the lens hood, and the insides seem well baffled.

[don_feinberg2]

>>I wonder if flocking the inside of the Kiev is hard to do yourself, or if it demands fairly extensive disassembly of the camera?<<

 

Not difficult. I have done 3 Kiev 88's -- very successfully. I have done it with the Edmund adhesive flocking paper, and with black interior-lens paint. Wipes out any flare, or reflections due to large image circles (a much more important problem...).

 

 

Note that Kiev backs are faithful copies of the Hasselblad backs, complete with the problems of the Hasselblad back, including light leaks in the area of the darkslide. These can be fixed easily in the same way (and with the identical materials) that one fixes the Hasselblad back.

 

Don Feinberg

donf@cybernex.net

[nhat_nguyen]

The reason why you most likely never had a flare problem with the

Yashicamat 124 is because there are little if any movable parts

between the lens and the film plane.

 

The Kiev on the other hand, has gears and other parts that are exposed

within the mirror box.

 

I've been shooting with Holgas as my only medium format camera lately

and the thought of owning Kiev 88 is like going from a skate board to

a BMW...so I'm excited about the getting my 88...just a little concern

and cautious about the infamous shutter problems.

 

The flocking I dont' mind. That's easy, I own a Zenit 122 and flocked

it with simple matte

[jeff_swauger]

Some people have reported flare problems from the lens on the 'Mats, but you're right, there's not much between the lens and film plane that could reflect. It'd have to come off the lens or shutter, and the Kiev is a lot more complex parts wise behind the lens.

 

Ain't Holga's great? They really reduce photography to the basics of composition. Whenever I get too serious about it or get blocked where I just can't seem to see anything to take pictures of, I pull out the Holga or Diana (which is much better because it's much worse, if that makes any weird kind of sense) and go wander around and shoot things I probably never would otherwise. Usually the results are pretty good, and at least get me thinking about what I want to photograph and get me back on track.

 

Gee, all this talk about photographers sitting around flocking their cameras...

 

I've seen some one mention flocking they got from Edmunds, what did you use to flock your Zenit?

 

I'm really interested in the Kiev USA rebuilt ones, with the metal shutters, that are going for $499 with warranty. If the metal shutters work OK that's a significant savings over the cloth shutter ones, and close enough to the price of a Kiev 60 to make it worth the difference to get interchangeable backs. Plus Kiev seems to make the only shift lens I could ever hope to afford.

[nhat_nguyen]

Ah yes Holgas are great...they are so bad and that is what makes them

fantastic!

 

I too am thinking about that $499 Kiev 88 basic set from Kiev USA.

Kalimex in the Czech Repubilic has fantastic prices, but I�ve had bad

luck dealing with other overseas sources and feel discourage when I

have to deal outside the USA and Canada

 

Kalimex sells an �improved� Kiev 88 called the 88m.

Features flocked interiors, new internal gears, cloth shutters, 2

backs, wl, 80mm and PRISM! All or only $600 US Dollars. That�s just

$100 more than Kiev USA�s basic kit! But then there�s overseas

shipping and money wiring frees and then the wait...

 

From all the feedback of 88 owners that have emailed me, it seems that

the metal shutter does not cause any flare, but it�s the internal

parts in the mirror box that reflect light. I was checking out an

unmodified Kiev 88 from Russian Camera Exchange and yes there are

some exposed metal/silver colored parts in the mirror box.

 

The mirror box is filled with more parts than I imagined and there is

quite a number of gears and other metal components that are to the

right side of the mirror box, looking thru the back side with shutter

kept opened

 

How did I flock my Zenit? I just used matte paint and a small brush.

There are fewer parts in the Zenit mirror box and it was easy. Zenits

are great little 35mm SLR�s. I use them for Infared film. I need an

inexpensive body to test out the technique of taping a gel inside the

camera body between the shutter curtain and film rails. Works like a

charm.

 

Let me know if you get a Kiev, I am calling Kiev USA today to get more

details. A one year warranty sounds great.

 

I was thinking about getting a old Bronica S2, but that�s a risk too.

The S2 is 20 plus years old and sold as is whereas the Kiev have a one

year warranty. Plus lenses are so affordable, that it makes a gr

[jeff_swauger]

If you like the Holga, try and get your hands on a real Diana. They are really overpriced since they are rare, unless you find one at a flea market, but worth it IMO. I paid $50 for a good one on E-Bay, and haven't regretted it. The styrene lens on it is even more magical than the Holgas cheap polycarbonate one. BTW, I have 3 Holgas and none shoot the same, shutter speeds wander all over the map from unit to unit.

 

I know what you mean about Kalimex. I've never dealt with them, nor know anyone who has, and they do have great prices. But the idea of dealing with a firm that far away, and the additional difficulty of financial transactions with Czechoslovakia as opposed to EU countries is a turnoff to me. Also, if there is a problem it's a lot more involved to ship back and forth. I might consider a lens or something that's less likely to need work from them, but for a main camera body and backs I think KievUSA is a safer bet. Plus you get the warranty and 30 day return period.

 

You flocked your Zenit the same way I treated my Holga that I pulled the 645 frame out of to get rid of some flare. Back years ago when I worked at an aerospace firm they had a special black coating that they used for optical devices, mainly spy satellites. It was made by growing a titanium oxide coating on the surface, which was very black and made up of feather like crystals that acted like microscopic baffles to trap even more light. Absorbed something like 99+% of all incident light, but it was really fragile, if you touched it it would destroy the surface. Saw a disk coated with it, it was freaky, it was so black it didn't have any reflection from the surface, it literally looked like a hole in the universe right in front of you, like you could put your finger in it and it would just disappear.

 

One thing to consider when painting gears would have to be to make sure the paint isn't on a surface that gets a lot of wear so as not to make flakes that would get on the film plane or lens.

 

I know what you mean about used gear being a risk too. I was looking at various cameras including Mamiya 645's, but a lot of the ones I looked at had seen really heavy use by pros as wedding cameras.

 

That's good info about the Zenits, I may have to try one as a cheap camera for taking places I might get ripped off. Have you seen the Zenit photo-sniper? That thing looks like a rocket launcher, I'd hesitate to use it to take photos at political rallies, it'd probably really get the attention of the body guards!

 

If/when I get a Kiev, I'll post my impressions and experiences here. The main drawback I see to the cheap one is the lack of mirror lockup, but you can't have everything for $500 in MF. I could always use the Yashica for conditions where I know I'm going to use slow shutter speeds, I've gotten sharp pics from it hand held at 1/30th of a sec if I'm careful.

[wes_oh]

I just bought a new 'stock' Kiev 88; made in 95, inspected in 96, and bought by me in 99. Have had no problems; I must be one of the 'lucky' buyers. Came with Russian instructions but included calibration and notes by the technician. Seen anything like that by Nikon or Canon lately?

[ed_lau]

Hi there,

 

I have two Kiev 88's. One has a standard bronze colored metal shutter and the other has a cloth shutter. I have NEVER had any flare from the metal shutter.

The cloth shutter is quiter and looks more modern. Either choice is a good one.

The $499.00 Kiev/USA kit is a great deal considering it has a full one year warranty. Try to get something like that from any other Russian Camera Dealer.

And the most inportant thing about Kiev/USA is that they can be fully trusted to Honor & stand behind that 1 year warranty, no matter how many times the equipment is sent in.

 

Ed Lau

[yoshimasa_tsuji]

cloth curtain is undoubtedly inferior and unreliable as it is

vulnerable to heat, sun ray, and extensive use.

I had mine replaced with a metal curtain: noisy as before, but

I am more concerned with the reliability.

You need to replace the shutter mechanism, particularly the

stop mechanism of your Kiev88 whatever year it was made in.

The problem with a metal curtain is that it is slightly more

expensive than the cheap cloth curtain.

 

Tsuji

[joseph_watson]

i heard about a light leak in that Depth of Field Preview trigger. so i gaffer taped it around the thing. the leak happens only at close focus and i realized that it could happen because the internal barrel that is threaded inside the outer barrel at close focus has a gap between the two barrels which normally would be alright but the trigger has gaps in it so it causes light to come in through the barrel gaps. to see what im talking about focus to the close focus range 0.6 meters then look at the back of the lens and move the trigger while holding the barrel up to the light. what i did is use gaffers tape (im a holga user as well) to seal this up i never use this preview button so its no big deal if it cant move.