Second wedding, have some questions

[buns]

Ok, so I have accepted my second wedding and have hired on a second shooter. If you remember me, my first

wedding was last minute for the B&G and I did it for free. I had a point and shoot that I had to barrow because mine

died. I was able to pull out several good photos, but it was hectic. Lots of PS. I thought I learned my lesson.

 

So this is my second one. I am a little wiser this time since I hired a second shooter. However, my camera is still

shot. I thought by now I would have a new one.. and nope. The B&G is like the first, not much time left for them to

find a photographer and I really really wanted to do it. However, I have explained my situation with info they needed to

know and they still wanted to hire me. So I barrowed yet another camera, this one is better, but still a point and

shoot. My mom sent me her point and shoot, so now I have two point and shoots. yes, bad situation, I know. So

keep those comments to yourself. This is a VERY casual wedding and with LOTS of natural light potential. So I'm

confident that with the price I gave them.... very very low, they will get better than what they expect. I have found that

just because you have a less than perfect camera, doesn't mean you will have bad photos, I just don't want to make

a habit

of this. So, I'm curious if anyone has any ideas on how to make these cameras work for me. One is an Olympus

Cyber Shot, and the other is an Olympus..... something, I dunno. I've just been taking photos of everything in every

situation I can think of to get the hang of them.

 

As for the second shooter, he will get paid for his photos that he takes. I'm not in it to mess around with it. So no

worries there. If you want to see some of what I have done with a point and shoot, just check out my website at www

dot serendipity dot photoreflect dot com.

 

Second, I have finally have an investor (my mom). She wants to invest in my photography and get me the equipment

I need to really do this right. So I have been looking into DSLRs and am really interested in the Nikon D300 and the

Canon EOS 5D. Canon lenses are Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM Standard Zoom Lens, Canon EF 100mm f/2

USM Telephoto Lens, Canon EF 17-35mm f/2.8L USM Wide-Angle Zoom, Canon EF 50mm f1.4 USM Standard &

Medium Telephoto Lens.

 

I haven't found any or really looked for lenses for the Nikon yet.

 

I don't want to barrow a huge amount of money, so if anyone has any other system that is less expensive but works

just as well, I'd love to hear it. Also a second body that will have to be less expensive but still a decent camera.. that

would be great to know as well.

 

I really want to do this right. I'm turning down weddings left and right because I just don't have the equipment to do it.

I truly enjoy it and love it really. Any help in starting out would be great. Please no sarcasim or rudeness.

 

One more question (sorry for the book), how and where do you put all the batteries, lenses, extra body, and extra

mem cards on you? I really don't want to do the vest thing, but really don't want to be running back and fourth to my

bag.

 

Thanks!

Krista

[savagesax]

Before taking on anymore weddings get to know your new cameras, whatever you choose. I personally feel it takes around 3 months to really learn and memorize all of the functions of the camera, lenses, and flash units, but you can shoot a wedding with the new gear in about 2 weeks of study and practice. There is a huge difference between a point and shoot and the cameras you are thinking about getting. To me this would be something in line of driving a mini van and a race car. This is my reason why you need time to learn.

 

About camera gear. Here is the latest info I could find. The D300 is not a full framed camera, but the latest talk is there will soon be a D700 full frame coming out. It will have the same features as the D300, but full frame.

 

If interested Nikon also has announced a D3X, 22 megapixal camera also expected to be released sometime in the near future to compete against the Canon 1Ds Mk3's 22 megapixel camera.

 

The Canon 5D is also an excellent choice but that camera will also be updated sometime this fall with a new sensor and chip set. This camera has survived over 2 years now so it has a strong following.

 

I carry all of my gear in a rolling case called a Tamrac. This company is pretty good, but not great. They offer a 5 year warranty. Always keep your case close to you at all times. I've lost several items such as lenses. The memory cards should always remain somewhere on your body at all times. Do not put them in your case EVER, because if you lose your gear, stolen, whatever at least you have the wedding cards safely on you. Needless to say camera gear can be replaced but the memories of the wedding cannot.

 

I can't tell you what to buy as far as cameras and lenses and you will get a mess of opinions. I would strongly suggest renting until you figure out what feels good to you. Both Nikon and Canon have strong support programs for tech advice. Also I'm seeing more and more pros using Nikons, but at the moment Canon still seems to have the edge. This is changing rapidly so in a few years perhaps Nikon may be the professional camera of choice. No one really knows.

[bryantan]

This is probably a little rude, but I can think of no other way to put it: what photographic experience do you have beyond point and shoots? I'm including your now-shot S7000 in that category.

 

You have considerable knowledge in Photoshop, have a good sense of composition, but beyond that, there are but a handful of pictures in your portfolio that are not ordinary snapshots.

 

You can certainly dive into an SLR system, but you would need to be prepared to start making decisions about exposure, depth of field, using fill flash, freezing or inducing a sense of motion - all in a split second. There are decisions I fear you are not ready for, since your cameras have been making them for you. At the risk of sounding old fashioned, good photography is not something you just pick up and do. So I think you have some learning ahead of you. I don't presume to know where you are at on the learning curve, but you should know the basics of manual exposure, a flash system, and lighting.

 

Of course, I could be all wrong about this. The surest way to find out is to go and rent one of the aforementioned cameras and see if it is equipment that is holding you back.

[savagesax]

Canon is offering or was offering a 5D with a 24-105 IS "L" lens as a kit. The 24-70 lens is a bit heavier and better quality. Something to think about. The 16-35mm lens is also an excellent lens. If I were you, I'd skip the 100mm for now and look for a 70-200mm lens new or used.

 

Then as time goes on and you are booking weddings add prime lenses, such as the 85mm and perhaps a 15mm fish eye. Frankly, I have a lot of other gear, but this pretty much covers my wedding needs.

[simon_hickie1]

Here in the UK, the Fuji S5 pro sells for 499gbp (little more than a D80 and less than half a 5D. It's often referred to as the 'wedding photograper's camera'. What you get is great dynamic range & metering (important for black suit / white dress situations) and Nikon D200 build. The main weakness seems to be sluggish performance and poor raw conversion software. It's compatible with nikon CLS flash system. So you could invest in quality lenses and flash (I recommend the SB-800 plus SB-600 as backup) then upgrade the body as the business develops. You also really need a backup body - you can get TWO Fuji S5 Pros for the price on one D300. For lenses, something like the Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 (or Nikon 17-55mm f2.8 if funds permit), Nikon 50mm f1.8 & Nikon 85mm f1.8 + Nikon 18-70mm f3.5-4.5 as backup would cover most eventualities. Total UK cost for this setup (2 Fuji bodies, 4 lenses as described plus 2 flash guns) would be around 2200gbp. To this you would need to add cost of additional batteries (bodies & flashes) memory cards, flash bracket, tripod & maybe a monopod. For flash, take a look at www.abetterbouncecard.com

 

At the end of the day, only you can decide if the investment is worth it. But if you are serious then go for it. However, I cannot stress the importance of backup too much - hence my 'affordable' recommendations. If the Fuji is not your cup of tea and you can go with the D300 setup, then a D300 plus D200 (lightly used second user) as backup (or even 2 x D200 ) is an alternative.

 

Hope this helps!

[stephen_kinosh]

D300 and a 17-50 or 18 -55 2.8 is a good place to start. I have a D70 as backup ( my 1st DSRL and 2-135. 2 SB800, and cords brackets and a ton of memory cards. If you go in to a wedding without a backup of everything you need to shoot, you are doing your couple and yourself a big disservice.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

You might want to start by reading most all the old threads here on first weddings and newcomers.

 

Good luck :-)

[christopher hartt dallas]

Krista, your question hints at you being the little kid in the candy store.

 

You're considering either full frame (5D) or 1.6 crop (D300). If it doesn't make any difference to you, go with

the crop frame. You can get two digital Rebels with kit lens for the price of a 5D. You can even get 2 40D's

(body only) right now from B & H for the price of a 5D. So figure out what you "need" - one full frame or two

crop frames.

 

The 17-35 is a discontinued lens, the 16-35 II is the current offering which replaced the 16-35 (v1) which

replaced the 17-35 long ago. Now if you mean the current 17-40, that's a good lens. On a full frame 5D however,

the wide end of that lens will give your people "moon faces" because of WA distortion - most brides are not real

fond of this.

 

You didn't mention flash - in wedding photography no matter how fast the lenses are, you need to have and master

flash. And you also didn't mention post-processing. Do you have the software, hardware, etc to process your

client pictures?

 

Take a realistic look at the weddings you're 'turning away right and left'. When you start charging an adequate

fee to re-pay the loan to your Mother and make something for your business and yourself, will those offers still

be there?

[steve_c.5]

Krista,

 

There is some good advice here from all, and you should think about all of it. Study the past forum posts and learn all

you can. Your question has been asked and answered many times in one form or another.

 

As for buying equipment: you're apparently leaning toward Nikon equipment, which is fine, but be sure of the brand

before you settle on it. Nikon and Canon will have the largest amount of compatibility and accessories, lens

availability, etc. However, I use the Sony platform because of the in-body image stabilization (for shooting without a

tripod in low light) and wide compatibility with older Minolta lenses. Pentax has a similar platform, and you'll find

fewer lens options for the Pentax AF system than for Nikon and Canon. So weigh your choice carefully, get your

hands on some cameras, and experiment.

 

As for asking your mom for an investment: if you truly are turning down weddings left and right, and have the chops

and skills for the work, then you'll be able to repay her in no time. So, don't be shy about asking for what you need.

Most of us work with at least $5000 worth of equipment, and we use that equipment to make tens of thousands of

dollars, sometimes even six figures in a year. A good photographer can get the return on investment very quickly,

and picking the right equipment will make your life and your work SO much better. And, if you make a bad choice,

you can always Ebay the gear and get most of what you put into it. So your mom's money will be safe. Just don't let

it get stolen. Also, label everything with your phone number, so when you inevitably leave something expensive lying

around, the (hopefully honest) finder will know who to call.

 

To me, there are some features I can't live without in the fast world of wedding shooting. One is high speed shutter.

This feature allows the flash to sync at very high shutter speeds to improve outdoor photography with flash. In the old

days, we couldn't even do this but now cameras can do magic. Another is a flash compensation adjustment for

shooting in Program mode, which lets you adjust flash output easily. Sometimes this feature is buried in a menu,

which sucks, but if you pick a camera that has it easily accessible with a button, your life will be better. In fact, try to

pick a camera that has buttons for ISO, WB, exposure compensation, flash compensation, etc. so you can adjust

these things quickly and directly.

 

As for full-frame vs. half-frame sensors, you can save money at first by going with a half-frame sensor. At your stage,

you really won't notice the difference much, and I don't think you need to spend $3K on a body just yet. What you

need more than that is a good range of lenses (from superwide angle to 200-300mm telephoto), a backup camera,

and a good flash system. And, a good computer with ample storage for storing and editing your work.

 

As for carrying equipment: You'll need a good rolling case to carry your gear in (LowePro), and I like the belt

systems for carrying 3 or 4 lenses on me, with a little pouch on the back for business cards, memory cards, etc. The

belt system lets me keep just the lenses on me that I need (and this will vary somewhat as the day progresses, so

you can put the unneeded lenses in your rolling case nearby and just carry the essentials on you). Tamrac makes

some nice stuff and it's very inexpensive. You'll need a padded belt with the various size lens pouches that you can

put on or take off as needed.

 

Finally, you've got a lot to learn about flash photography. Check out www.planetneil.com, study past posts on this

forum, and learn/experiment all you can. If you do all this, you'll be well on your way.

 

Good luck.

[buns]

In response to some questions:

 

No, I have never had a DSLR before. in fact, my s7000 is the most advanced camera I have ever had and the first digital I have ever owned.

 

I seriously agree with the learning time. I don't plan to just jump right into this. I have only offered free or very low priced wedding photography options to those who don't have a choice. I had the same problem when I got married, not enough for photos, but needed them. I hired just a 35mm ameteur for $75 to take my wedding photos. I explain everything to the B&G and tell them to make the right choice for what they want.

 

I do want to do this, but like I said before, I want to do it right. I want to have the right equipment for the budget with out sacrificing quality. I want to learn everything, I am constantly am on this site and others just trying to learn and get new ideas. It has taken me almost 6 years to get to this point.

 

Bryan Tan- I think you are just about spot on. My portfolio shows my 'growth' in photography, or at least I hope it does heh. I do believe that my s7000 has kept me back a little, but didn't know any better. I do not have any formal training, so I am having to learn this as I go. I know what I would like to see, and what I see through the view finder of my s7000 is not what I want it to come out as. So I go into PS and try to make it as close as possible. So I have learned PS pretty well and love it. Believe it or not, my favorite is my photo that I did in PS as well of Stone Henge. However I am learning and won't jump into wedding photography full time until I get the hang of it.

 

So if I went with a smaller sensor or smaller frame, wouldn't I be risking quality? What if somoene wants a 10x13 or something? I want to make sure I have the right camera for the job, but still have room to grow. So if I actually am good at this, then later on down the road I can purchase a better camera. Like I said before, I just don't want to be risking quality for price, but price is an issue.

 

I do very well in natural light. I have a hard time in extreme low light. Lighting is my default I believe. With out experience with an external flash, I have not had a chance to experiment with it. I do hate the harsh on board flash and never use it. I would rather mess with the ISO and what not to get the right image than deal with a flash. I do know it is a key role in wedding photography though and have looked on PN for the 5D. So light is something that I am constantly learning, and if I didn't have two small kids, I would sign up for a light class in a heart beat. Just can't afford the cost of tuition though. I'm good at self learning, so that is what I'm trying to do.

 

Christopher Hartt- You are 100% correct, it is like being a kid in a candy store. I'm sure everyone on here can relate to that. I want it all, but my mommy has only a certain amount of money so I can't get it all... lol. Its sad.. I know. I have PS 7 and am looking for an upgrade. My hardware, I just bought a new computer and a 160GB external HD. I have a lab in Morganton, NC to process the prints for me and they I believe have a really good price and quality. I have a contract already set up and ready to go. I have a website that is ok with photoreflect, it is free, one day I wish to have my very own. I do need a more professional email address then my usual one haha.

 

As for the offers I turned down, I turned them down because what they want is not what I can offer them at the moment. for a wedding of 150-200 and a budget of $3000, I just don't feel right showing up with a point and shoot. I can not produce the quality that that price would require. I would feel like a fool and stupid. So I refered them to others or just simply said that at the moment I am not able to fulfill their need. I hope to God that they will be there when I am ready. But what am I to do? I just am honest with them and they appreciate that. this current couple will not go with anyone else because they liked my honesty. Its like a booger on your finger that you can't get it off lol. So I just decided to go ahead with it.

 

Thank you for the advice on the roller bag and keeping the cards on your person!

 

I guess I just need to know what camera would you all suggest for the lowest price but still good quality for the business? Also lenses for that body and a flash.

 

Thank you all!

Krista

 

 

[buns]

Steve C.- Thank you very much for you response. I have read previous posts and just felt like I needed a more 'personal' answer to make me feel like it is pertaining to me. I don't know, call me crazy.

 

I believe you answered my main question though. I needed to know what I need at this point. So from what you said, I get from it that a half frame will suit me just fine? Is there a brand or certrain half frame you would suggest in particular?

 

What I understand from PN that I have read, is that a wide angle lense, a standard tele lens, and a 50/1.4 is the way to go? Am I wrong or right? Is there anything else? I know I need a flash.

 

I think that what I have found the hardest in deciding to purchase a DSLR system is just desifering (sp) through all the ideas and levels of cameras and such. I simple list of one or two and comparisons would do wonders lol. The one thing that the 5D has had me with is the low light qualities. I love natural light and I have a fear of flash lol. However, I am willing to dive in to a half frame if I can achieve the same.

 

Thank you again very much! Sorry for being a broken record.

[bryantan]

Christopher put it better than I did - a kid in a candy store. But more than that, you don't really know what you want. For example, you ask specifically about a 50mm - well, it's a normal lens in one format and a short tele in the other. Would you be able to know the difference? The rule of thumb is: if you have to ask general questions about equipment, you're not ready yet.

 

There is no need to fear flash, you just have to know how to use it. There is far more to flash lighting than just pointing the flashhead somewhere and tripping the shutter. This is a good place to start to learn: http://planetneil.com/tangents/

 

I think part of the reason you're not getting any advice specifically "pertainent" to you is because you approached this strictly as a equipment question. I am never one to believe that equipment (within certain limitations) is the answer. So if you want some advice...here it is: to be completely honest, I wouldn't hire you based on your photo.net portfolio and what you have on your website. You have plenty of technical, lighting and post processing issues to work out before your work looks professional.

 

Like I said before, a vast majority of your pictures look like snapshots. Compare your work with the work of professional portrait and wedding photographers in your area and see if you can see the difference.

[simon_hickie1]

As a biased(!) Nikon user, I love the Nikon Creative Lighting System (CLS). CLS allows a camera body such as the D80 and above to control one or more compatible flash units wirelessly. For lenses you need coverage from wideangle to telephoto. You also need to be able to cope with low light situations where you cannot use flash. And you need backup kit as mentioned. This can all be achieved with two bodies (best if they are the same & a pair of lightly used D200s is a good place to start), a fast standard zoom (which is why I mentioned the Tamron) a fast telezoom and a fast prime lens (e.g. a 50mm on a crop sensor body such as the D200) & two flash units.

 

Even more important than the gear though is dealing with clients and managing the event, post-processing etc.etc. and developing a style you are comfortable with and which is what your customers want.

[buns]

I mentioned the not getting answers for me to the 'read other forums' response. I specifically asked about equipment because that is what I need help with. For my style which is mainly documentary/photojournalism (hence the snap shot look), I love the more natural look. So I am looking for a camera that will suit my needs, but I also want to reach into traditional photography for wedding as well and kind of blend it all with my own touch. I will not mimic another photographer, but gain information. I also don't want to be so far out of it that no one will want to hire me. So again, I do know I have lots of learning to do. How else do you learn? I understand some if not most of you have actually gone to school for it, which is great. But for the others who just can't afford it, the best way to learn is just to jump in there and see what happens. I'm trying to take it a step further and pick your brains as well and do this as smartly as I can. After I have the equipment, I'm not going to start advertising on tv or anything. I will do what I'm doing, but increase in my effort. I have pretty much come to a hault, just because I do not have anything that will support what I want. My s7000 is dead. I also would love to be a second shooter on several wedding just to gain even more experience. After that, then I will officially start.

 

Besides lighting, the equipment is the hardest for me to grasp. I think I just need to find a brand I like, and learn it from there. I get confused with all the numbers of the lenses and different brands, and all sorts. It is overwhelming.

 

I have got some good advice on here and am now looking for into a half frame rather than a full frame. I thank you for that. I will take it from there and do my best.

[picturesque]

1. Re making the P&S bodies work for you--this is the wrong place to ask. I, and I'm sure most of the people on this forum, don't use P&S cameras to photograph weddings, so specific suggestions would not even be known. Maybe try dpreview, in the appropriate section.

 

2. Gear--here is what I would think is the cheapest workable professional level gear one could get. A used Canon 20D or whatever the equivalent Nikon body would be (help me out, you Nikon folks--D80?), a Tamron 17-50mm f2.8, a Canon 50mm f1.8 and a Canon 85mm f1.8 (Nikon equivalents on the last two), a Canon 430EX or 580EX (Nikon SB-600 or SB-800) (a used Vivitar 285 would work as well, but requires a bit more attention). A lot of this can only be gotten used, and the rest can be gotten used. Spare body can be another one, or even a film body, given you need to bring enough film each time.

 

3. Carrying gear. You are going to have to work this out for yourself. Just be aware of theft, meaning you do things like get a hard case that you can cable lock to an immovable oject or keeping all memory cards on your person at all times. I use a belt, a small shoulder bag and a hard case of gear, along with other, smaller, specific function bags. This is to distribute the weight and to remain modular. The two popular bags now are the Shootsac and Boda Bag. You might investigate them, but keep in mind that gear changes over time, plus you might need to bring different gear at times, so don't build a rigid system that can't change and adapt to the way you currently work.

[steve_c.5]

Krista, for your specific lens questions: With a half-frame sensor (like a Nikon D300, etc.) your choices are different than with a full-frame. A 50mm f1.4 is a nice lens to have, and cheap too, but on that camera will be more like a 70mm, not a "normal" lens. A 30mm f1.4 would be more like a "normal" lens on that camera (Nikon and Sigma offer good ones, the Sigmas are around $400). I use this lens for 1 and 2 person portraits and if I back up enough, I can shoot small groups with it.

 

You should also seriously consider a 10-20mm (or in that range) superwide lens. With a half-frame sensor, these will let you get some incredible scenic/landscape shots, work in tight dressing rooms and hallways, shoot cake shots when everyone is crowding around behind you, and you can get some really great dance floor shots with them. For Nikon, Tokina makes a nice one these days in that range (I forget the focal length, google it) that is f2.8, which is fast enough to shoot in low light.

 

You should also have a wide zoom that covers the 24-70mm range with f2.8, and a 70-200 f2.8. At this point, the 70-200 from Sigma or Tamron will be much cheaper at around $700, and when you graduate to better gear, you might trade them in for the Nikon equivalent which will cost in the 4 figure range.

 

These lenses will cover the ranges you'll need to shoot wedding in. You can also later add some specialty lenses like a 70mm portrait macro. Sigma makes one that is rated nearly perfect in optical quality, which I use. Great for tight macro ring shots, flowers, cake details, table decoration, etc.

 

However, if you get the 70-200 f2.8, be sure you get the Macro version, and you can forego the portrait macro I mentioned above for now.

 

Get yourself two flashes, and get something like the SB-800 that has an external connector to plug in the Nikon external battery pack (to keep your flash juiced up quickly for fast action flash shots). Get yourself at least 3 or 4 lithium batteries for the camera, and some high-capacity AA nickel-metal hydrides to power your flashes. Get a good intelligent charger and charge them the night before any shoot for best power (they drain power just sitting around).

 

I also like the Gary Fong Lightsphere diffuser system, and would choose that over a flash bracket or most anything else. Many here will differ with me on that (and have in the past, but it works well for me). Many past threads on that subject, so read up.

 

Once you have all this gear and know how to use it, you'll feel a lot better about charging $3000 for a wedding (and you'll appreciate why we do too).

[bryantan]

"For my style which is mainly documentary/photojournalism (hence the snap shot look), I love the more natural look."

 

I believe you are confusing "snapshot" with journalism. A snapshot is a picture you take with little thought given to exposure, lighting and composition.

 

Take, for example, this image: http://www.photo.net/photo/6530278

 

There are certain technical things wrong with it (flat skin tones, awkward pose, tight crop), but beyond that, what story does it tell? I can't think of one. Frankly, many of your pictures suffer from this problem - subject is dead center, with less than ideal lighting and cropped too tight. Just because it's a "candid" shot doesn't mean it necessarily tells a story. If you don't believe me, look at some news photos.

 

A snapshot is a snapshot, no matter what camera it was captured with. What I've been trying to get at from the beginning is that diving into a small fortune of equipment will not change your pictures at all. But by all means, invest in a basic system. There is a lot of good equipment advice on this thread. Start small, get only what you need to learn. By the time you're ready to fully dive in, you will know what you need and won't need to ask.

[simon_hickie1]

Nadine, the D80 is a fine image maker in the right hands, but matrix metering is quirky - tends to take too much account of what's under the focus point. A lightly used D70s or D200 will meter more accurately. Images can be more noisy than canon equivalents, but the noise reduction is less aggressive & some say more detail is retained. For a dedicated wedding shooter, the Fuji S5 pro has many devotees for its build (based on D200), accurate metering & greater dynamic range. On the flash side, the SB-800 is the one to go for - can be shoe mounted or bracket mounted. If shoe mounted, SB-800 can also act as commander for remote SB 600 & 800 units for multiflash setup which the SB-600 cannot.SB-800 also gives 2/3 more stops output. D200 / S5 Pro has better weather sealing than D70 / D80 for those rainy day weddings.

[savagesax]

Krista, don't shoot any weddings yet. It's peoples lives and lifetime memories you are playing with. Let the pros do the work and learn to become a pro. It's not that hard. It takes time and a ton of practice. I'd say you need to shoot about 30,000 images before you are ready and before you can call yourself a pro. Go to school and study under a local wedding professional. You will be the winner at the end, not someone finding themselves in court, because of poor weddings.

 

It's common to see a lot of unhappy brides asking for advice on this site. I"ve also read about experienced photographers, 10 years in business, asking what to do with an angry bride thats taking legal action.

 

Stop, take a breath or 2 an rethink your adventure. Turn it into a 2 year program before you shoot your next wedding. 2 years of learning.

[buns]

I understand what everyone is saying see where you all are coming from. I agree in most cases.

 

However, to tell me not to do anymore weddings for two years, well I don't know where I'll be in two years for one. I'm a military spouse, we are due to move in a few months, no orders yet, but its always a possibility. Now saying that, I know I'm going to take a huge hit for that. But that is like saying that because I'm a military spouse, I just need to stay away from photography besides of my kids. Or wait until we settle after my husband retires. That's 11 years from now. I am 28 right now and don't want to be 39 before I take the plunge.

 

There is a severe lack of affordable wedding photographers in this area that I currently reside. I know what it is like to just find a job in the area, and that is to say there isn't any. A 'good' job here is Walmart, making $6.75 an hour. I can't even pay for one of my kids day care with that. I'd end up losing money, and yet people here are trying to make ends meet. Then they want to get married. If they are like me, photos in some cases are my only memories. I KNOW how important photos are. I have thousands of my own that I have taken. So what are these people going to do? They are just trying to make rent and put food on the table, and now here is a wedding that they most likely won't have any photos at all of. Well that is where I have came in. I offer either free service or a very low fee to cover costs. I do not and have not gaurenteed my work as of yet and it is stated in my contract. Just like them, I am trying to make ends meet and they fully understand that I am not a pro yet. I have had many compliments on my photos that I have taken from families and others and have had brides with tears in their eyes because not only am I taking photos for them when they were afraid no one would, I also want to help them. I provide any service that I can. I have taken in a bride the night before so she has a place to go, I have drove them to the hair appointment and to the ceremony, I have given suggestions, and many more.

 

I am not suggesting I am anywhere near the point of an actual pro, such as you guys. I am not at that level and consider myself to be an advanced amateur. I feel that most of the wedding pros on this site have forgotten where they started. Forgotten that sometimes you start from the very bottom with nothing.

 

I want to do this so bad, and I feel like I am literally holding myself back, and for good reasons. I am still learning. I can not even begin to breach the line between amateur and pro with out the right equipment. With out that, I can not learn how to see things in different ways and how to use the equipment to do what I want. I am at the bottom and want to do it right so that one day, who knows when, I can come on here and be giving advice instead of asking for it.

 

I am not sorry for taking on these two weddings. I know that they could not call one of you up and have you shoot their weddings. You are just way to expensive. As well you deserve to be. This is a hard business and takes a lot of energy, time, money, and creativeness to achieve anything remotely good. So please stop looking down on me for taking them on, and just embrace the fact that I want to do it right and that I understand that I can not just jump in and charge three thousand for a wedding from the get go. I KNOW THIS.

 

So, now because of some of the awsome advice on here, I am looking at the Canon 20d. I see there is a 30d and a 40d, but no one has suggested these. I have read up on these, but don't really see a difference in them. Is there a reason? Is this a camera I should go with? I will then go with a wide angle lens, tele lens, and a standard. The #s are still a bit confusing, but I know I will learn that as I go.

 

So don't burst the bubble of the little guy. I am not a competition for you... apparently. I just want to do what I love, and that is the American dream right?

 

Thank you guys. You are great at what you do.

Krista

[savagesax]

Thank you for giving us your background. The situation is now a bit different. No, you should not wait until you are 39 to start doing weddings. As long as the people know your level and you keep the price way down, perhaps $100 to start you should make the jump. I still have no idea what you can afford. After about 8 or so weddings start around $500, after 20 to 30 push for $750 and top off at $1000 for about a year. Thats $50,000 a year, about double the national average for 1 day of work per week. After that you can pretty much get the going rate for decent studios and you will have 2 years of practice behind you.

 

My feeling has always been if you dress the part people notice. This means have the best gear you can afford, dress very professional and bring business cards with you. Almost every wedding I give out 3 or 4.

 

Here is the level of cameras. The 20d is old the 30d replaced the 20d and the 40d is the best you can get from your list. Although I'd spring for the full frame 5D kit lens setup if you can find the funds. You can actually shoot a wedding with just this 1 lens, the 24-105 IS L lens. Add a flash, the 580 and you can do a wedding. As you make money book more weddings then you can buy more gear.

[simon_hickie1]

Hi Krista. As usual, I see lots of useful advice here & Bob has summarised things nicely. As I see it, there are two issues that are being conflated here: (1) your level of experience & (2) the hardware needed to make a go of this. Taking each in turn:

 

(1) You clearly have enthusiasm and a willingness to succeed. This is good! You also appear to have taken on board quite a bit of advice given here. Also good! You lack experience in this field. This is not so good! In my relatively limited experience, successful wedding photography is even more about people and project management (self and others) than hardware. You need to be confident about such things as shutter speed / aperture / ISO interactions, depth of field control and lighting (even when using a single on-camera flash). You need to be confident about what camera settings to use when. You also need to manage customer expectations - never over-promise & under-deliver, always strive to 'delight the customer'.

 

(2) Wedding photography has been around for over a century. A retired pro from my camera club used to shoot with a Yashicamat TLR camera (fixed normal lens), but he's a great people person with a great eye for composition. Better hardware simply makes it easier to get the job done efficiently and to 'capture the right images and capture the images right'. A pro at my club uses exactly the same setup as Bob describes in his last paragraph (5D etc.). Others use 20D, 30D & 40D with assorted lenses. All are capable of producing images that 'delight' the customer. What makes the difference is the person behind the camera.

 

Where to go from here? Well, with my business lecturer hat on, you need a business plan before buying anything. Work out a 24 month cash flow forecast based on Bob's pricing structure and do some what-if analysis based on optimistic & pessimistic business forecasts. A simple spreadsheet should suffice. That should help flesh out how much it's worth spending on hardware in the first instance. You can revisit your hardware portfolio as the business develops. If you do well, you can afford to upgrade. If not, then you will not take too much of a hit if you gear your hardware towards the pessimistic end.

 

Hope this helps!

[garrison_k.]

If you want to get up close in the action and take photos of couples that can't afford what is often an over

priced service in the first place, you have all my support and admiration.

 

Forget Canon. Most here shoot Canon because of the previous pixel race and high iso performance issue that Nikon

lacked. However, the most important tool in wedding photography is fill flash. That's Nikon's dept. The pixel

race is over with, and Canon's flash system can be tricky in the heat of the moment. Look for a used D70 for now

and a new SB-600. Should cost around $650. Next year, buy a used D300 for $900.

[picturesque]

There are differences between the 20D, 30D and 40D. The reason I suggested the 20D is the money. It is the cheapest, used. They go for maybe $500. I would start with that and the Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 lens--if used, maybe $300-350. This combination can shoot probably more than 80 percent of all the weddings you might run across without anything else besides the flash (plus memory cards and extra batteries of course). You can add the 50mm f1.8 (which is less than $100 new) and the 85mm f1.8 (about $300-400 new, less used) later. A tripod would be nice but not absolutely necessary. I would stick to the 430EX or 580EX, but you can get one used as well ($200-300). As I said, a Vivitar 285, less than $100, can be used, but requires more attention.

 

Garrison is right re the Nikon offerings, if a bit over enthusiastic about the pixel race. You cannot go wrong with either brand. Just pick the one that feels better in your hands and stick with it. Personally, if you are going used, Canon has the advantage, but if you had the money to buy new, Nikon's newest cameras are great. If you had a short term plan as he outlined, that would work. You can get the Tamron in Nikon mount too.

[buns]

Bob- I just wanted to say thank you for the very useful information. That is EXACTLY what I needed to know. I even appreciate the price advice you have given. That is about where I am right now, the $100 range and am comfortable with it, well will be when I have better equipment. Sometimes its hard to get out exactly what you want to know from people and word it right. So I appreciate it greatly. I do want the 5D, but I think I will start with the 40D and work my way up. Again, thank you very much.