Looking to take the plunge...but so many pools...

[brian.chmura]

Hi,

 

I am looking to buy my first real (had a Seagull TLR years ago) MF system. I have a budget of no more than $500

and the closer I can get to $300 the better. My primary interest is to use it to take portraits in outside settings. I

have an F3HP that I use (sparingly anymore) and D80 which I use all the time. I am looking to slow down and really

focus on getting very specific results. I expect that, in addition to big beautiful negatives and slides, I will help my

more casual photography by learning to stop and think more and shoot less. I used to be a fairly deliberate

photographer, but after a long hiatus I bought my D80 and now I just shoot hundreds of shots and cull to find the few

good ones on the card. So I am looking to force myself to be more deliberate, to put some batteries in my Sekonic

meter and take some well considered photos. Note that portability is not an issue as my purpose will be better

served by a RB67 than by a MF rangefinder.

 

I am not committed to a format, other than I am not interested in 645.

 

Here are the options I am looking at (comments and additions will be very gratefully received):

 

6X7

RB67 Pro S with two lenses (90 and 127 typically), WLVF and 1 or 2 120 backs from ebay

RB67 Pro S with one lens, wlvf and 1 120 back from Keh (BGN grade most likely)

Bronica GS1 from ebay (not many around, but a couple with prism and 2 lenses)

 

6X6

Bronica SQa (m) (i) from Ebay or Keh

Kiev 88cm (Hartblei mods) from Ebay

Kowa 66 (or super)...some on ebay

 

I don't plan on building a huge kit, and am not focused on the lenses available in the various kits I can find, as nearly

all have a lens that will suit for portratiure and I can always add lenses (as far as I can tell) to any of these systems.

 

The GS1 is intriguing...seems to deliver 6X7 in a considerably more compact package than the RB67...but I do take

some flower shots (with CFLs in my indoor "studio") and the bellows focusing on RB67 would be nice.

 

I figure I'd likely use a 6x6 more often as I could still accomplish my careful work but at the same time, take to the

streets for some candid without attracing too much attention.

 

I know you all can't make up my mind for me....but any insights would be great. I've gotten this bug before and have

repeatedly suffered paralysis by analysis and have abandoned the plan. But I am committed to buying in now. My

budget is pretty firm (it's not about what I can afford so much as I what I am willing to spend on a hobby I only find

sparing time for even with more convenient (D80) options.

 

Any guidance, wisdom, and testimonials for your own particular favorite are welcomed and appreciated.

 

Brian

[jason_schwefel1]

I got a E- rated RB67 Pro-S with a 127 lens, WLF and a 120 back for $240 (not including shipping) from Adorama. The camera is great. The glass is great. I am extremely satisfied with it.

 

I love it.

 

Jason

[jack_welsh]

Pick the RB, with the bigger negative, you'll get better enlargements.

[jack_welsh]

"I am not committed to a format, other than I am not interested in 645. "

 

6x6 IS 645 when cropped to an 8x10.

 

"I figure I'd likely use a 6x6 more often as I could still accomplish my careful work but at the same time, take to the streets for some candid without attracing too much attention. "

 

You could even, if your budget allows and your proud of the great deal you just got on your RB for portraits, get a Mamiya c220, c22, TLR for the streets.

But, that could put you over budget. A Yashica TLR is another option if you decide that this 2 camera route might work well for you.

[jack_welsh]

One more post. I noticed that you like doing closeups. The bellows of the RB is great for that. The Mamiya TLR's have a great bellows system, too. But, I saw at KEH, that they have closeup auto extension tubes for the RB at a great low price.

[gt1]

I just picked up a beat up RB67 with 90 f/3.8, 120 back/insert, and WLF for $225 to complement my new 7ii. I wish I had seen that RB67 with 127 lense at Adorama but I'm extremely pleased with this one. I'll pick up a few more things for the RB67 when time/money allows but I think I'm pretty much set with the two cameras. Unless I start getting into 4x5. hahahahahah

[michaelging]

I will agree with the above posters, the RB or RZ67 is a great camera. Wonderful sharp lenses, close focusing with the standard bellows or even more with extension tubes. The rotating back is a nice feature. If you can get the AE prism it works very well and is right on with exposures. I have shot with and owned many MF systems , including Hasselblad, Rollei, Yashica, folders, and my RZ was the camera I liked and used the most.

[richard baznik]

I chose the GS-1 when I went through this process about a decade ago (not coming off digital, of course). I've had no regrets, though I must admit the revolving back and bellows of the RB/Z are attractive. But the GS-1 is much more manageable off the tripod, particlarly with the speed grip accessory. I've used GS-1 extension tubes (18 and 36mm) with good results, and as long as you have a prism back you can work around the problems of shooting in vertical format.

 

Your post seems a bit ambiguous regarding what you want to use MF for. If you really want to "take to the streets for some candids without attracting too much attention," you need to be thinking about a Mamiya 7 (out of your price range), a Pentax 67 (probably out of your range), or a Fuji GW760II (just in range, but with a fixed lens). The GS-1 does draw a bit of a crowd, and I suspect an RB/Z would be even more notable. If I wanted to specialize in 6x7 street photography without spending the money for a Mamiya 7 or Pentax 67, I'd probably go for a Mamiya Press or Koni-Omega. Both are pretty old now, but there are a lot of each of them out there in good working condition, and the lenses are superb. But they're rangefinders.

 

Maybe the two-system approach is the way to go if you can make the numbers work.

[mike_earussi1]

If your work is mostly in a studio and on a tripod then the RB is best. If hand held the Pentax 67 is best. For landscapes then the Koni-Omega is the biggest bang for the buck (it can't focus close enough for portraits).

[jack_welsh]

I have a Mamiya Press and like that very much. I use it and the C220 when the RB would be too heavy to carry all day. Also, I use the Universal when i want a 6x9 neg.

[brian.chmura]

Thanks to all who've responded. I'm a bit surprised no one suggested any of the square format options. Is it a preference for the 6x7s or is it that the 6x6 choices in my budget aren't equal to those I can get in the 6x7 format?

 

As for why I'm not interested in 645...I like the square and (from my seagull days long ago) and figure I can crop the 6x7 negatives to get square and still have a 6x6 to work with. Can't do that with a 645...at least not as big.

 

Again, mostly I want to shoot portraits and some up close flowers.

[jdrose]

If you are not committed to a format then you might look into a RB67. A complete outfit can be had for under $300. I have a RZ67 and love it. Premium image quality.

[jdrose]

I just noted your last entry.

 

If you are interested in the 6x6 format then the Hasselblad is highly recommended. It offerers the best bang for the buck. The tonality and and "zat" of Zeiss glass is unmatched. Very occasionally the 500 C/M set-up sells for right at $500. Amazing bargain.

[jack_welsh]

If you like the 6x6, and had a Seagull, then the Mamiya c220's would be a good choice. They are cheaper than the C330's. While they are not self-cocking like the 330's. Having had over a dozen TLR's over the years, I've found that the ones that have a film winding knob, (C220, Yashica D), are more dependable that those that have a film winding crank. (C330, Yashica Mat). The winding cranks have been known to jam. The Mamiyas also can take interchangeable lenses, and have the bellows for closeups. They are best used with the Paramender for closeups, which need a tripod. But, to get the best results with closeups, a tripod is best with any camera.

The RB would be the best choice, larger neg, revolving back. But,you might find someday that you want a lighter 6x6 street camera, too.That can be bought at a low price. Some Medium Format cameras.. the backs, accesories, do not come cheap, even used.

[jack_welsh]

Brian, I looked at Adorama's website. If you feel that it would make a good 6x6 street camera. They have a complete Mamiya C220 with 80mm lens, condition E- for $154.00.

[richard baznik]

Brian: You're right -- we (or at least I) focused on 6X7. If 6x6 works just as well for you, take everything I said about the GS-1 and apply it to the Bronica SQ series, with two execptions. First, obviously the revolving back envy factor goes away. Second, there's a lot more SQ used gear out there than GS-1 used gear.

 

I guess I was transferring my love of large negs to you. It's why I now actually shoot more LF than MF. The Leica M gear -- the love of my life for the last 55 years -- gets to come out to play only now and then.

[ilkka]

The important difference between GS and RB is that the RB has revolving back and can be used for both horizontal and vertical without turning the camera. This makes the camera bigger but it is easy to use with waist level finder. Pentax 67 and Bronica GS are 6x7 but only in horizontal orientation for the Pentax (not sure which way the Bronica goes). For portraits, and for many other images, the camera needs to be lopped on its side. This is easy with the Pentax if you use the standard prism, not so good if you want to save weight and have the waist level finder. Bronica needs a prism and that adds to its weight so you save nothing over the RB. I would not even think of Kowa or Kiev if you have RB on your list. Hasselblad would be good, but hard to get below 500 and next to impossible for closer to 300. Get one lens first, based on your use, and go from there.

[brian.chmura]

Thanks to all. I ended up putting together (piece meal) an RB67 Pro S, 120 Pro S back, 180C lens (for portraits) and WLF and (beat up but functional) prism. Paid $200 for the body and back in good condition and the beat up prism. $108 for the lens (glass is flawless) barrel is a bit BGN-like. $18 for a like mint WLF. Throw in another $50 or so in shipping costs and I'm all set up for just over $400. Which leaves me some budget to pick up either a 90mm or 45mm from KEH or Adorama.

 

In the end, it was the rotating back (vis a vis other 6x7 options) and the sheer size (talked with a local pro wedding photograper and got a look at some 6x7 transparencies and I was hooked). Thanks to everyone who offered their advice.

 

I should get a roll of film through it next week....of course, I don't know what to do with it once I get it out of the camera. Haven't had any filmed processed in years now and reading about all the scanning options and pros and cons of this and that and the costs and...it seems I've exchanged one set of "don't-know-what-to-dos" for another....but at least I'll be shooting my way through it all this time which makes it all the better.

 

Thanks again. I am going to post a new thread on what to do with my film once I get it out of the camera.

[gt1]

"The important difference between GS and RB is that the RB has revolving back", and I'm loving that feature.