Sheet Film Development Options

[bruce_e._rathbun]

I am looking to purchase a Jobo system next year for processing

4"x5" b&w sheet film. At the current time I am looking for a

reliable system that will work for a reasonable price. I have seen

the HP Combi Sheet film tanks that will process 6 sheets of

4"x5" film. This would be an option if it works. I am also looking

at the BTZS film tubes. Can anyone tell me if any of these work

and to what degree? I have seen a few comments on the BTZS

tubes but not anything on the HP Combi tanks. Thanks in

advance.

[walter_glover]

Hi Bruce,

 

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I have a work-around thata is a little unique but works amaingly

well.

 

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I have been down the Jobo road and didn't like the results I was

achieving � technically fine but aesthetically not what I was after.

 

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So, I ended up with some 2500 series tanks and some 2509n

reels. What I wanted to do was increase acutance by using

intermittant agitation (hard to do in a tray unless you use John

Sexton's slosher design) and achieve some compensating

effect by using dilute chemistry.

 

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(Note: Because the Jobo machine system requires so little

solution to process it is difficult to get sufficient stock solution for

the surface area of film without overloading the mechanism.)

 

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My solution was to buy a Jobo centre shaft extension to act as a

handle. I place 12 sheets into 2 reels on the shaft and use 3 litre

measuring jugs (cost $10.00 each Australian) in a line for the

solutions - Pre-wash, Dev, Stop, Fix, Ridfix. The jugs have more

volume above the 3.0 litre mark and so I use 3.5 litres to cover

the reels. Shop around and you'll find the right size.

 

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The reels are kept in the light-tight 2500 series drums until I'm

ready to go. Once the fixing time is over I use the now empty

Jobo tank with a cascade washer to rinse and wash the film.

The first time the film is touched by hand is when I remove each

sheet for the ritual Photo-Flo.

 

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I attain very even processing over the entire sheet, each sheet is

held in its own slot to prevent abrasion and I get ample

throughput at 12 sheets a time.

 

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It might be a suitable solution to your problem.

 

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Good luck ... Walter

[wayne_crider3]

FYI, B&H has Jobo single and dual reel sheet film developing kits

which includes the loader, tank and reel. The single kit (#4341) goes

for $125 last I checked. The dual reel kit is #4342, and would allow

diluting the developer if only loading one reel. Both are daylight for

hand agitation and from what I suspect can be used later with the

machine. Next best alternative for little money is cheap plastic

containers and sheet film holders.

[doug_paramore]

Bruce: You might try the Beselar or Uniroller motor base and drums.

Much cheaper and they work great. I don't think either is being made

now (I may be wrong on this) but they are still to be found in camera

stores and are fairly plentiful used. I got mine from a forum member

and they work fine. I use them constantly.

 

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Regards,

[brett_m._thomas]

Bruce, I have used the BTZS tubes in 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10. Mostly 4x5,

and I love the system. Easy to use, nice even developement, easy to

control temperture, and the lights are on while you roll the tubes

like logs in the water bath. I've never used anything else so I

can't comment on other methods, but I don't ever plan on using

anything else. Watch E-Bay, the tubes come up every so often. In

fact there are some on right now.

[mike_rosenlof2]

Here's what I use:

 

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1.5 inch ABS tubes, about 6 inches long, but I have some that are

longer and some that are shorter.

 

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a few 8x10 print trays, a few rubbermaid looking, but made by somebody

else containers that hold a 4x5 neg easily.

 

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Curl the film, the long way, emulsion side in, and slide into the

tubes.

 

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Drop the tubes into a tray with developer - about 1 liter, but a

little less is enough. Spin the tubes by hand. The tubes are open at

both ends, so solutions flow through the tubes. They're not floating

in the soup, but sitting on the bottom of the tray. I kind of "pinch"

a pair of tubes between thumb and forefinger to rotate the tube. 5

tubes fit in an 8x10 tray, and I shoot low enough volumes that I'm

happy with processing only 5 sheets at a time. This is all in total

darkness. I listen to WWV on a shortwave radio for my timer. Spin

the tubes continuously because only the very bottom part of the tube

is actually under water at any time.

 

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When the developing time is up, move the tubes to the stop tray and

spin for a bit, then to the first fix. I then take the sheets out of

the tubes into the little rubbermaid containers for the second fix,

and I wash in those same containers. If I put them on hangers, I

could just run a hose into a tank, but instead I keep a hose filling

and dumping those containers one at a time.

 

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I have three different tube lengths, so if some sheet is going to get

a shorter developing time, I put it in a shorter tube, and I can

identify that by feel in the dark.

 

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Developing is very reliable. With TMX, the antihalation backing is

not normally removed in the developer (back of the sheet is pressed

against the tube) and it usually takes a little sodium carbonate for a

few minutes after the second fix in those little containers -

solutions can get to the back of the film there.

 

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Materials are really cheap. Sand the cut tube ends with fine

sandpaper until they are very smooth.

 

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Disadvantages are max of 5 sheets at one time. High solution volumes.

I use relatively highly dilluted developer, so the volume hasn't

really been a problem. If I'm only doing 2 sheets, I use a 5x7 tray

and half the solution. I could do more sheets in a bigger tray, but I

would want a long skinny tray, with my next size of tray 12x16, it

would take a lot of developer to get the depth required.

 

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I think I could get away with 1/2 liter if I'm doing 4 sheets in an

8x10 tray. I tried 2 sheets, 8x10 tray, 1/2 liter and the solution

wasn't deep enough that the film was getting well immersed as I spun

the tubes.

[jeff_buckels]

Not merely to be annoying, but somebody needs to speak up for plain

old tray development here. It's the simplest method of all. It was

good enough for Ansel Adams, Edward Weston, Eugene Atget, Alfred

Stieglitz, Edward Steichen .... I can't think of a significant critic

or art historian remarking that Weston, for instance, could have been

REALLY good if he'd just had a Jobo drum processor or a nitrogen burst

set-up. Or pixels. -jeff buckels

[scott walton]

I have tried the tubes and still go back to my 4x5 hangers. I can

process up to 20 sheets at a time if needed and to me it is a personal

preference... that's all.

Cheers

[paul_owen]

Bruce, IMHO the CombiPlan is a really convenient and reliable method

of developing sheet film. The holder is a doddle to load and as

long as you are careful there are no real problems. Make sure that

the clip that holds the sheets on the frame is pushed far enough down

to stop them moving, but not so far that it causes the sheet to

buckle, and agitate slowly (sort of a slow motion version of the

standard 35mm/120 tank method) and you'll be fine. Regards Paul

[david_willis]

I use a Jobo single reel tank and agitate by hand. It works great

for me. Mine was designed to be used with a lift, but I put a rubber

stopper into the hole so I can invert it and use more chemistry. I

use one liter of each solution and agitate constantly by rolling

forward 10 seconds, backward 10 seconds, then invert twice and slap

to dislodge bubbles. Works great for me.

 

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Dave

[dave_richhart]

I am with you Jeff...there is just something that "feel right" about

standing in total darkness and flipping sheets of film in the trays.

I know it's not the easiest way to control development, but it works

VERY well, and it sure is satisfying!!! -Dave

[bruce_e._rathbun]

So many options! I have tried to do the tray method. I can not

seem to get away from even the smallest of scraches. Even if I

process a few sheets at a time I will still get small scratches on

the film base. I have tried sheet film hangers with a Nitrogen

burst in college. This was by far the best method that I have

found. No scratches and I could do 12 8"x10" hangers. This

method is a bit pricey at this time. I have looked at the Jobo reels

and have been advised that there are problems loading the

reels. Is this a problem that anyone has found? I also like the

idea of the BTZS tubes. I have been on the web to see the

instructions for using the tubes. It seems like it may take a bit of

time to get used to it. Finally I have considered using the good

old hangers in the tank method. I would do enough negs to

justify but I have also been advised that there is the hazard of

uneven development. The last method that I have tried was to

place a sheet film hanger in a tray. BIG MISTAKE for me. I was

horrified to see "development spots" (for lack of a better term)

where the holes in the hanger were. I am in search of a simple

method of developing around a half dozen 4x5 negs. I do thank

everyone for the help.

[jeff_buckels]

Bruce: One last little pitch for tray development. I did tray

dev. for awhile before I got consistently clean negatives. At this

point, doing 5x7 negatives, I don't get many problems. I do some

singles (never a problem) and up to about five at a time. If I'm

shuffling five, I might get a scratch on one. What helped me the most

was changing to the shuffling procedure urged by Gordon Hutchings in

The Pyro Book (emulsion side DOWN, etc.). The main point, I think, is

that it's just such a simple procedure. Also, you're pretty much

looking at tray dev. if you want to develop by inspection, which I do.

Dev. by inspection, again, is the simplest method. It seems to be

thought of by a lot of people as very tricky/difficult or something,

and yet godzillions of the old photographers managed.... -jeff

buckels

[dk_thompson]

If you've done nitrogen burst & tank lines, there's no reason why you

shouldn't be able to do the same on a smaller scale (without the

nitrogen)....we run a 2 gal. tankline (7, 4-up racks) and do hand

agitation with no problems and have been doing it this way for 10

years at least. The lab across the street from us uses 3.5 gallon

tanks (98 sheets) and hand agitation as well. I run a small tankline

at home with 1 gallon Cesco-Lite tanks (w/floating lids) in a Leedal

waterjacket. I can run 12 4x5 hangers (but it's tight, I mostly do

6-8) at a time, 5x7, 2x3 hangers, and roll films. The small Kodak

hard-rubber half gallon tanks will let you do around 10-12 at once as

well. The beauty of a replenished tankline is in the control you can

get out of it, and the fact that the chemicals are all ready to

go....walk in, load the racks, pull the covers and run your

film...providing you don't have to run a waterjacket. A run is about

45 min. for us, in another hour the film is dry as well. It's the

same with my little tank line as well...I use a heat dryer too. You

should be able to buy a used set of Kodak tanks, lids and single sheet

racks (3 tanks) for less than a $100. The new plastic tanks will run

about $20 each. Stainless steel is the best.

[bob_krantz]

Let me suggest a variation on tray processing that I came up with

years ago when I started down the large format path. I took some

cheap 8x10 plastic trays that have subtle ribs on the bottom. I glued

a few strips of plastic about 1/2 inch tall and 2 inches long ,

standing up in the center of the tray as dividers (one "north-south",

the other "east-west"). Each tray holds 4 sheets of 4x5, a reasonable

number and is essentially scratch proof. The solutions are free to

spill around the divider. Now if only I can think of a way to handle

8x10...

[brian_ellis3]

I've used the BTZS tubes with 4x5 for years and like the system a

lot. I really haven't found any down side to them. I've always gotten

very even development, they don't cost a whole lot, and they take up

very little space. They have the advantage of allowing you to process

your N, N+, and N - negative simultaneously. I've used the Jobo

system in a workshop and liked it except for the fact that you have

to process only the N negatives in one run, then a second complete

run for the N + negatives, then a third complete run for the N -

negatives. This would be fine if you had a whole lot of negatives to

develop at one time but I usually don't process more than 8 or 10

negatives in a session and it was really aggravating to process the 5

N negatives then have a second complete run for the two N+ negatives,

and a third complete run for the 1 or 2 N minus negatives.

[brian_ellis3]

I should have added that I use tray development for 8x10 negatives

(due to the high cost of the 8x10 BTZS tubes). Although I've gotten

good results as long as I don't do more than four negatives at a

time, I don't care much for it, partly because I don't enjoy standing

in the dark with my face over a tray of chemicals, shuffling

negatives for 10 or 15 minutes but mostly because it's a real pain

keeping track of which negative gets what development time. Some

people say they get around this by having separate trays for each

development time but I don't have room in my darkroom sink for that.

[dm4x5bwpiezo]

Another vote for BTZS. Have used them for more than 5 years. 1)

Consistently fine development. 2) Easy control of each negative for

different development time in the same session (i.e. 2 negatives

at "N", 1 negative at "N+1", 2 at "N+2", etc.) or use the BTZS test

system for amazingly accurate results with reflective or incidence

readings. 3) can work in the light once they are loaded. 4) one shot

developer for quality and freshness (I used TMax RS) with no

depletion. 5) develop as few negatives as you have or as many tubes

as you want to buy. 6) Fred Newman, who owns the company, is very

helpful with honest and friendly advice (even calls on his own dime).

[neil_poulsen1]

I''ve also been in a quandary about how to process sheet film. I

tried using film hangers and got surge marks near the holes. I was

pre-soaking my negatives in water and think that may have had

something to do with the surge marks.

 

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I have to have absolute control over temperature, so that I can

control development. I've purchased a used compensating timer, and

I'm going to try a slosher with four quadrants for 4x5 in an 8x10

tray. In this way, I can get the same results for 4x5 that I obtain

for single-sheet processing of 8x10, and I need only do my calibration

tests on 4x5.

[dk_thompson]

Neil, one old method to control temp is to run a water jacket around

your tanks...it doesn't matter if it's having them all in a sink with

a standpipe, a dish tub, or a deep tank configuration. Just as long as

the tanks don't float....drain the water off at some level. In the

"old days", like 20-30 yrs. ago, alot of E6 was run this way...and

alot of b&w film still is.

 

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We run film by hand in tanks, and don't use a prewet. It comes down to

getting the agitation just right though. Another cause of the

agitation patterns can come from an improperly replenished tank, where

the bromide build up in the tanks can get stirred up, and poor

agitation can cause "bromide drag", or in roll films, "sprocket drag".

I've seen this on a heavily used developer, working through Kodak

hangers and getting channeled through the side holes...but once you

get the technique down, there isn't any reason why your negs can't be

clean.