Greater zoom

[will king]

Am I correct in thinking that a 1Ds Mark III has theoretically a greater zoom factor than a 1D Mark III?

Considering the crop factor and the MPs.

[adam_gifford]

I'm not sure what exactly you are asking. But the 1Ds will have a wider field of view with the same lens than a 1D will, since the 1D is 1.3x crop.

[will king]

Yes, I know. At 21 MP, the FF 1Ds Mark III will allow more cropping than the 10 MP 1.3 crop 1D Mark III.

Essentially giving it more of a zoom, right? In other words, I take 2 shots of the same object with the same

lens at the same distance. First shot with the 1ds Mark III, the second with the 1D Mark III. I should be able

zoom/crop in closer, not going beyond 100%, with the 1Ds Mark III, right? Hope this makes sense.

[catchlight]

Just multiply the focal length printed on the side of the lens by the "crop factor" of the camera:

<p>

<li> 1DMkIII = 1.3

<li> 1DsMkIII = 1.0

<li> 40D = 1.6

<li> 5D = 1.0<p>

 

That will give you the apparent focal length range of the body/lens combination.

[will king]

Thanks Brent. That's what I thought. Just making sure.

[summerleif]

Briefly stated Will, the situation is the opposite of your current misconception.

 

On a 1Ds3, a 200mm lens produces a 200mm result. on a 40D with the 1.6x crop/"magnification" factor, a 200mm lens produces a 320mm like result. In other words the results of a 40D zoom "appears" as though it has zoomed further. It hasn't actually, it is just that the angle of view is narrower, i.e. its field of view is narrower through the lens than with a camera that has a larger sensor and a larger image circle.

[danield]

Will - yes, a 1.3x crop from a 1Ds MKIII image will give you a higher-resolution image than a 1D MKIII image. But

not by much, I think you're talking about 12Mp vs 10Mp - not a huge difference. I wouldn't use this as a basis

for a purchase decision.

[nate_kinnee]

I think Daniel is the first to answer Will's question, as I understand it. The key is pixel density. As the 1Ds3 has higher pixel density than the 1D3, it will contain more detail when cropped to the equivalent field of view.

[will king]

Actually Daniel, the 1Ds Mark III is 21 MP not 12.

[davebell]

In terms of "zoom factor", or absolute magnification, a 200mm lens will behave as follows on the following bodies:

 

a 200mm lens on a 5D/1Ds (1x crop) will behave like a 200mm lens; a 200mm lens on a 1D (1.3x crop) will behave like a 200mm lens; a 200mm lens on a 40D (1.6x crop) will behave like a 200mm lens

 

Very simple, the lens doesn't magically change its magnification factor depending on the body it is attached to. The field of view changes, which when displayed or printed out to the exact same size for each of the bodies, will create the effect of increased magnification. Above comments re. pixel density are correct, but you are still more than capable of printing pretty large images even when cropping a full frame 5D image to be equivalent to a 1.6 crop body like the 40D.

[trebor_navilluso]

I think Y'all are overcomplicating this.

 

Will:

 

Zoom and Crop are two different things.

 

Two things.

 

1) You have it backwards. A 1Ds has no effect on the apparent "zoom factor" as you put it. While the 1D has a 1.3 crop factor. Meaning that a 100mm lens on a 1D it will have the field of view (and appear to be) a 130mm lens both in the view finder and in the final image.

 

2) Yes, since the 1Ds has a larger sensor with more and larger pixels, you could concievably crop into the final image in post processing more. However, it is generally accepted that if you want to zoom in closer, better results are obtained by using a crop sensor with a given lens over croping the image in post.

[g dan mitchell]

They have the same range of zoom, though the angle of view at any particular focal length will be narrower on the 1.3x cropped

sensor 1D as compared to the FF 1Ds.

 

Let's use the 24-105mm f/4 L IS. Let's think of the full frame 1Ds as our reference. If you put that lens on the 1D the 24mm focal

length will give you an angle of view equivalent to using a 31.2mm lens (24mm x 1.3) on the 1Ds. The 105mm focal length on the

1D will give you an angle of view equivalent to using a 136.5mm lens (105 x 1.3) on the 1Ds.

 

From the reference point of the full frame DSLR (or 35mm film SLR) putting your 24-105mm lens on the 1D gives you the angle-of-

view equivalent of using a 31.2-136.5mm lens.

 

David Bell's "behave like" comments above may be literally correct from one limited perspective but, frankly, that sort of comment

only serves to confuse folks whose simple question is "how will this lens work on a different camera body?" Yes, a 100mm lens is

still a 100mm lens no matter what camera it is attached to - but that really isn't the question. The question is, more or less, "how

much 'reach' will I get from a given focal length on my cropped sensor body in terms of what I'm used to from FF/35mm cameras?

"

 

The notion of "works like focal length X on my old camera" is a useful and helpful one as long as the photographer understands

that it "works like" rather than that "it is."

 

(Yes, there are other issues, but let's not go there right now...)

 

Dan

[matthijs]

Nate is right. (The one with the smallest pixels gets you the biggest 100% image.)

 

Trebor he states that the pixels are larger with the 1dsIII. That's incorrect by my knowledge.

 

The 1DIII has 7.2 microns pixels and 1DsIII has 6.4 micron pixels. As the smallest pixels gets the biggest

magnification in this case the 1DsIII would win.

 

(In theory the one with the smallest pixels will be the one with the most noise however as the 1DsIII is the top

model that theory might break down a little.)

 

Not mentioned but noteworthy: the 1DII and the 5D have the biggest pixels at 8.2 micron, the 40D at 5.7 micron

and the 450D / XSi at 5.2 micron have the smallest.

 

So the biggest bang for your buck in Canon EOS camera's magnification -if all else is equal- would be the 450D /

Xsi Digital Rebel.

 

Source: www.the-digital-picture.com it can be found in the 450D/Xsi review.

 

 

I hope this is a helpful clarification, Matthijs.

[matthijs]

What I meant to say is that if you use the same lens on all these camera's to take a picture of the same object at the same distance the camera with the smallest pixels (the densest sensor) will hold the most detail.

 

A 100% crop of that object will be the biggest (have the most pixels) out of the camera with the densest sensor.

(The 1DsIII in the question, the 450D/XSI of all current Canons.)

 

Regards, Matthijs.

[nate_kinnee]

Will! Daniel gave you the correct response and then you attempted to correct him. He was not stating that 1Ds3 is a 12MP camera, but that a 1.3 crop performed on the 1Ds3 leaves you with 12 million pixels -- which is more than the 10 million pixels on the 1D3.

 

As far as I know, you can calculate for yourself this way: 21,000,000 / (1.3 * 1.3) = 14,XXX,XXX.

The (1.3 * 1.3) is because the crop must be applied both horizontally and vertically.

[William Michael]

What an interesting thread.

 

I too think the answer to the question (as I understand it) is about number of pixels and their density.

 

I interpreted Will wants to compare images cropped to the same size, after the two photos were a taken with the same lens on each camera, from the same viewpoint:

 

`In other words, I take 2 shots of the same object with the same lens at the same distance. First shot with the 1ds Mark III, the second with the 1D Mark III. I should be able zoom/crop in closer, not going beyond 100%, with the 1Ds Mark III, right?`

 

Therefore I also agree with Daniel D.

 

I also would not use this data as a criterion for a purchase decision.

 

WW

 

Aside: Nate, you made a typo, I think.

 

21,000,000 / (1.3 * 1.3) = 12,426,035. Which is the 12Mp Daniel D was citing (12.5Mp, if you like)

[nate_kinnee]

Yes, WW, you're right... good catch on the typo.