Best lens for lower-light, high action, 15-50 foot range?

[paul_carman]

Greetings all!

 

Although I typically shoot portrait photos (and have some good lenses for closeup), I've just started shooting women's

roller derby shots, and I'm hitting some challenges with the indoor lighting and shot distance. I'm hoping you can

help me select a good lens to go with my 30D! :)

 

For derby, it's definitely a lot of action (these girls can skate fast - lol) - the gymnasiums also don't have the best

light (I've got a 580EX II to help a bit). I'm also shooting semi-close up, say 15 feet for the starting shots, and then up

to around 40-50 feet if I'm on one side of the rink and they're on the other.

 

From what I've been reading, thinking a 70-200 f/2.8 might be the way to go, but any advice you can offer would be

very, very much appreciated.

 

Thank you very much!

 

-Paul

RoninPhoto

[tom_spalding]

I don't shoot much indoor sports, but if you search for "basketball" or "gymnastics" you'll find lots of good advice from people who do.

[dschuleman]

The 70-200mm 2.8 would be great.....If my bank account would allow I would definitely own it instead of my f4 version.....you may also want to check out the 135mm f2 which could be used for your new use and also for your portrait work. If you want to take tighter shots, the 100-400mm f5.6 would be worth a look. You won't be let down with any L-lens. You could also rent some of the lenses and use them at the roller derbies to see what focal lengths you really want/need.

 

Good luck,

Danny

[g dan mitchell]

Sounds to me like a great opportunity to use a prime or two.

[mark u]

f/2.8 is too slow. Get a couple of f/2 or faster primes. Understand that at close range you will need to pre-focus and use manual focus, because AF simply is not capable of tracking fast motion at these distances even on a 1D Mk III or Nikon D3 with any lens. You will need to learn to time your shots so the skaters hit your focus point when you shoot. For drama, I'd consider having a fast wide angle and shooting from a low position close to the floor/track. If you are going to use flash, get it off camera: preferably radio triggered and up high.

[george_slusher1]

I'd recommend the Canon 100mm f/2 prime. It's fast, accurate-focusing (USM), and quite sharp. It's also a LOT lighter than the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 lens. On the 30D (which I also have), it has the Field of View of a 160mm lens on a 35mm camera. If you need a slightly wider angle, try the Canon 85mm f/1.8, which looks almost identical to the 100mm f/2 but has the FOV of a 135mm (well, 136mm) lens on a 35mm camera.

 

Could you use an L lens? Sure, but they are expensive, heavy, and, given the problems of focusing on a fast-moving subject, probably won't give you much better results. The Canon 85mm f/1.2 L lens is less than a stop faster, but weighs 2.3 lbs vs 15 oz and costs more than 5 times as much as the 85mm f/1.8.

 

I use the 100mm f/2 for horse shows when it's not bright enough for the 70-200mm f/4 L.

 

Two other things:

 

- IS won't help very much. It does nothing for moving subjects and you should be using a fairly fast shutter speed, so camera shake shouldn't be much of a problem. (Actually, IS can get in the way if you have a fast-moving subject. When I'm shooting horses with my S3 IS, I often turn off the IS.)

 

- Learn to pan with your subject so that the subject is sharp (well, as sharp as it can be), though the background may be blurred. When you pan, keep ahead of the subject: give them a place to move to in the photo. Try this: take a shot of something moving--a cyclist is a good choice--with the subject dead center. Crop the image in two ways, one with a lot more space behind the subject, the other with more space in front of the subject. The difference should be obvious. People are generally less comfortable with a subject that appears to be moving out of the frame than one that appears to be moving into the frame.<div></div>

[manuel barrera houston,]

canon 35 f/2 soft at f2 but you capture the picture, canon 50 f/1.4 great lens but tends to hunt in low light, pre fcous and manuel focus, canon 85 f/1.8, sigma has some low light lens, but not familar with them.

[trebor_navilluso]

"the 100-400mm f5.6 would be worth a look. You won't be let down with any L-lens."

 

Sorry Danny I have to dissagree. F5.6 is a very slow lens, and he's looking for something faster. To suggest that just because a lens is an "L" you won't be let down is silly. If it's not suited for the purpose "L" doesn't matter. And that lens is way too long for this as well.

 

I've shot a fair amount of hocky with similar bad lighting. F2.8 may be adaquate if you can go to ISO 1600 or 3200. But I would recoment using two bodies with primes. One with 35 F2 and one with 85 1.8. Or 50 and 135 F2 depending on how close you want to crop.

[christopher hartt dallas]

I know it's not your question - but you might consider a 1Ds3 in addition to the 2.8. Effectively you have only 1/3 of the track when the front/aesthetic side of the skaters are in view. At f2.8, during the normal course of skating, the subject will be "in" and "out" of focus in less than a second. You'll be limited to get a focus lock with the 30D in that space of time unless you establish a focus pt on the track manually and limit yourself to shooting that specific pt when a skater wanders into your focus zone. Panning can help, the AF with 70-200IS is very good on Ds3, much less predictable on 30D.

 

The right lens might help you a bit with shooting roller derby, but the right camera is also a significant part of the equation IMHO.

[christopher hartt dallas]

If the 15-50 ft range is certain (seems a little short to me) you might also consider the 24-70L. It focuses faster than the 24-105L, not to mention the 2.8 v 4 aperture.

[mike_dziak7]

The 70-200 f2.8 may not be fast enough if the rinks are not VERY well lit. The recommendations of the Canon's 100 f2 or 135 f2 are both an excellent choice if the action is fast moving.

[DickArnold]

I have done a lot of indoor sports. A lot of the time, as in the swim meet I just did, high contrast is a real problem. I shot four days at Harvard pool and I decided with a 70-`200 2.8L I would shoot one day without flash. I lost a couple of good pictures because the contrast was probably five or six stops. The water makes it difficult because of the highlights and reflections off the swimmer contrasted as the swimmer faced the lower light end of the pool. So, I recommend for iffy indoor light situations that you use flash as I did with the other three days. When get high contrast ratios with digital I find you just cannot capture the darkside details without noise and loss of detail. My printing color space is Prophoto because it does not clip highlights as much as sRGB. See picture below done with flash..<div></div>

[ralph_jensen]

On a 30D, I'd say

 

85/1.8 or 100/2.

[steve_crist]

I second the 100F2 lens. I use it on a 5D with great low-light results. On a crop camera you will effectively get even closer. The 24-70 is also a great lens (my most used at weddings). I don't know how low the light is at your arena but these are both excellent choices - the zoom obviously being more versatile. Just crank up the ISO until you have a usable shutter speed. Don't even think about the 85f1.2 lens. I was considering getting one of these (the latest mark II model) and when I tried it out was VERY disappointed at the focussing speed.

[William Michael]

For people at15ft to 50ft under `typical` gymnasia lighting on a 30D a one lens solution is: EF50mmF1.4.

 

That will give you full frame at 15ft, with a `safe` DoF @ F1.4. But you will need to crop a lot at 50ft if you want only one person in shot: (HFoV= 30ft at a subject distance of 50ft).

 

Another option would be the EF85F1.8. At 15ft it will get a crouched person in shot, (I guess they are mostly always crouched?) But the DoF @ F1.8 at 15ft is only about 6inches. But on the other hand the 85mm will be more useable for the longer distances.

I have both the 50 and the 85 and use them both extensively indoors, at that range for swimming, especially during winter, when competition reverts to a 25 meter pool.

 

I also have the 70 to 200F2.8L: The lighting is usually abysmal in gymnasia, (and some municipal pools). For fast action you need a fast shutter: typically I do not use under 1/640, I have not shot roller skating, but have shot velodrome cycling: I would expect you need 1/1000 minimum.

 

That makes the 70 to 200 F2.8 virtually useless, if the lighting is typical to what I have encountered and you cannot use flash.

 

Also, IMO as a value for money purchase, it is an awful lot to spend if you only use the shorter end of the zoom most of the time, and you are dependent upon flash for all shots.

 

As previously mentioned, using a predetermined focus point, is the best focus option with a 30D, IMO, especially if they are coming toward you and especially at close quarters: in this regard the Focus Speed of the lens is irrelevant. I suggest using a predetermined focus point, even at 50ft, it works for me.

 

At 15ft, the 100mmF2 when wide open, renders an even narrower DoF and a smaller FoV than the 85F1.8, so choosing the 100mmF2 as a one lens solution would vastly depend upon how much you really shoot in the 15 ft to 20ft range.

 

But also note, the F1.8 (and F1.4) allows another nudge or three of the ISO, which you will find beneficial if pushed with the ambient EV.

 

My comments with regard to the need for lens speed, refer to shooting without flash, which I suggest you firstly check out: (1. allowed? 2. logistics.). On camera flash might not be the best solution.

 

WW

[john_holmes9]

Hi Paul,

 

I do a lot of gymnastics shoots and I have found the lens I use the most is a Sigma 50-150 f2.8. I usually have to

increase ISO to min 800, set the focus point to center, use the servo focus setting, and obviously shoot in RAW thus

ignoring WB. I use a Canon 400D and a 40D. Unfortunately I cannot use a flash. In some cases I have to use

additional software to reduce graininess caused by high ISO.

 

 

Sample: http://www.gibrockgymnastics.com/index_files/mijas08/mijas088.jpg

 

 

I have tried using primes on different cameras but unfortunately the speed of the event prohibits changing from one

camera to another, by the time you change cameras you have missed half the action. I have recently acquired the

Sigma 24-70 f2.8, and this is also proving to work very well.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

John