Pricing Qeustions

[elizabeth_morrissey]

I've been told I need to make my prices higher, how do I determine what the price

should be? I've been doing photography for 10 years but only in the "biz," of

wedding photography for 2. Here are my current packages:

 

 

Choose the package that fits your needs best

 

All Packages include set up time, professional canon equipment, photographs

edited and presented in a wedding album

 

Add $100 to any package to make it digital and receive a CD of all the images

from your day!

 

 

Bronze: 3 Hours, $500

 

Silver: 5 Hours, $750

 

Gold: 8 Hours, $1,000

 

Platinum: Unlimited Hours, Includes Engagement Portrait Session, $2,000

 

My website is http://www.capturct.com and believe me I KNOW it needs to be

redone, I'm working on it as we speak. Those are old pics, I have much better

ones now.

[russ_konrad]

Do a search of other photographers in your area.

 

Find out what they are charging for comparable services.

 

Like many things - perception is more important than reality for alot of people. If you are at the bottom of the price structure compared to the other photographers in your area - one "perception" that people will have is that you are at the bottom in terms of quality/services.

 

If you are in the middle of the pack (in terms of price) you will be "perceived" as being comparable to the other photographers in that price range.

[russ_konrad]

Additionally - everytime we have raised our prices - our business has increased! You can see our "Investment" page here:

<p>

<a href=http://www.almariphoto.net/services.html><b>Almari Photography - Investment</b></a>

[davebell]

Russ, interesting use of the term "investment". Made me laugh, although I have seen others use it. Adding "spin", as we say in the UK, to make something sound better than it really is. Politicians are past masters at it. Well, if it works and makes the financial impact easier to "bear", based on a feel-good factor, then it has met its goals.

[annealmasy]

Honestly, I don't see how you make any money with your prices as they are currently! I do realize, of course, that photography likely isn't your only form of income, or you are in a dual/shared-income home.

 

A good starting point would be for you to figure out how much money you would need to make to earn a reasonable full-time income that would both cover your living costs and the cost of doing business (don't forget taxes). Divide that by the number of weddings you can reasonably expect to shoot each year, and you'll have an approximation of what you need to charge for each wedding.

 

If you are thorough and truly account for all the applicable costs involved, I think you'll find that you really don't charge enough. :)

[elizabeth_morrissey]

I guess it is hard for to me charge so much because my overhead costs in general are low. I use one camera, with may different lens that were all paid for already, I edit on my mac computer that I bought 2 years ago and I produce a wedding album with prints which usually runs me about $200. I know I need to start factoring in my time, my time during the wedding and the hours spent editing. Anne- I'll take into consideration your little income calculator. And no, it isn't my only job, but I'd like it to be some day.

[russ_konrad]

David,

 

Considering that the only thing that a couple has left after the wedding day is the images of the day - the term "investment" is very appropriate.

 

Again - reinforcing my first post in this thread - if a couple "preceives" that their wedding photography is an "investment" - it is definitely easier for them to "bear".

[russ_konrad]

<b>"... I use one camera...."</b>

<p>

DANGER - DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!

<P>

Please tell us that you have a backup camera body as well as backups for all the rest of your equipment!

[elizabeth_morrissey]

of course!!!! I just mean I use one camera during the wedding. I always carry a back up camera, lens, flash etc.

[russ_konrad]

Don't downplay your investment Elizabeth!

 

Two camera bodies, multiple lenses, and multiple backups of everything you need for the wedding shoot is not a small investment - whether it is paid for or not!

[davebell]

Russ, that's fine. I just wouldn't use it myself. I don't want my site to sound like a financial offer. That's what makes us all individual.

[jeffrey_blake_adams]

NEVER base your pricing on what someone else, (who may not have done the math either) is charging. Pricing is based on your Biz plan. That is all. THEN your marketing plan tells you who can afford to buy it, where they are and how to reach them.

 

PLEASE take a class with the local SBA's SCORE office, or PPA or WPPI, ASAP, Hugs, J

[russ_konrad]

<b>"...Pricing is based on your Biz plan. That is all...."</b>

<p>

Pricing is based on what the market will bear - i.e. supply and demand. You do

need to be aware of what is being charged by your competition. The "price" in

one market may work very well, but fail miserably in a different market.

<p>

Market forces and your skill in positioning yourself in the proper place in your

market will ultimately determine what you can charge in your particular location

over the best "biz plan" in the world.

[William Michael]

Pricing yourself against / with the other photographers in your area is one method, and, as mentioned the perception is often the reality. So you could price yourself in the middle of the pack, if you wish, (and many do price their service this way), but that does not necessarily address you and your needs.

 

If we take these key points seriously:

 

1. Being in the "biz," of wedding photography for 2 years . . .

 

2. The belief that overhead costs in general are low . . .

 

3. That it isn't my only job (at this point in time)

 

4. but I'd like it to be (my main and only income) some day.

 

Then, we talk turkey:

 

1. How much annually do you earn at you day job in $,

 

2. How much in $ is any value add from that job (Health Cover, Holiday Pay, Child Minding, Employer Superannuation Contributions etc.

 

3. How many hours (per week) do you put into you day job?

 

Answer those three questions and we can work on a different nuts and bolts way to know the ballpark prices you need to charge to begin plotting a path to get into the business full time. It appears this is still a dream and not something which you have been strategically working towards over the past two years.

 

WW

[William Michael]

On the side bar issue, and, personally I not wanting a protracted . . . I simply state:

 

I interpret the meaning to be that Mr Adams` Business Plan would render a Price Structure which would address adequate sustaining of the both Business (product and client turnover and cash flow) and the Principal (Income).

 

Then the Market Survey (he says `Plan`) would provide the: NO GO; YES DEFINITELY; and MAYBE markets to hit for those Prices to be successful for the particular product offers.

 

To me, that is the same thing as saying: one price will work in one market and will not work in another.

 

Also, intrinsic to any Market Survey (Plan) I have done, has been analysis of the competition`s Prices and Product offer.

 

So, it appears to me that Messrs Adams and Konrad might be more similarly disposed in this matter, than a first reading indicates.

 

WW

[dmz17]

<quote>

I guess it is hard for to me charge so much because my overhead costs in general are low

</quote>

 

I am a full time self employed IT consultant with a huge interest in photography. My overhead (for IT) is nil <sic>. That does not prompt me to reduce my hourly rate for professional (IT) work. If what you do is worth the money you charge, clients will pay.

[philip_sokolowski]

Look into a book called Pricing Photography. It is written by Michael Heron & David

MacTavish. It talks about cost of doing business and ways to figure out how to get to

an end # to satisfy everyone. Good Luck!

[don_durham]

Saw very little in any of the responses regarding quality of the product. Not all wedding

photographers are the same. If you provide the very highest quality product it will be in

demand by those who can afford to pay the price. If you are more focused on how

much to charge than on the quality of the work, it will forever be reflected in what you

are paid. Become the best you can, be innovative, stand out and the money will come.

[elizabeth_morrissey]

. It appears this is still a dream and not something which you have been strategically working towards over the past two years.

 

WW

 

OUCH! I started the business alone, I don't have a mentor, I have this job, my day job and I coach full time so yes, it's been difficult to master out a plan that will work. I know I need to do it, I suppose I should go to SCORE and work on this plan.

 

Also Don, I agree that not much was said about the quality of the product. Thats where another part of my confidence in pricing structure lacks. I know I can produce a great product but when I compare it to some other wedding photographers out there I see how much I am lacking.

 

Together, can we come up with a list of things I should be including in my own costs.

1. Camera Boday and Lens (approx $3,000)

2. Mac Computer for Editing ($1500)

3. Travel Costs to Weddings approx ($40)

4. Time to Edit (Dont know how to charge for this)

[julianj1]

I am a mere amateur photographer but I have been running businesses for 20 odd

years and, along the way, helped a few independent professionals and

consultants. When teh business first starts to flow they are often surprised and

overwhelmed that anyone wants to pay anything at all. It was a telling phrase

when you said: "I guess it is hard for to me charge so much because my overhead

costs in general are low"

 

Is that guilt talking! Be careful, if you charge less than the customer would happily

pay then you are devaluing yourself and what you do. Also, you will tend to get

cheap customers, the sort that shop in Asda rather than Waitrose (for UK

readers!). If you aspire to more, and are capable, then price accordingly.

 

There are a lot of practical variables that might affect how you price, many of which

have been looked at in this post (competition, cost base etc.) but Don's remark

about the quality of your work is spot on.

 

If I can put another couple of ideas to you: you might want to look at where your

business comes from to assess this value thing, for example if you are

excessively busy and a lot comes from referrals then the chances are you could

experiment with increasing your rates .... and, going back to your original post, if

people are "telling you" that you should charge more then it sounds like you have

been devaluing yourself (particularly if it is your customers saying that rather than

your mother!).

 

Finally, a pricing adage that is a good one: it is better to have half the customers

paying twice the price than the other way round.

[annealmasy]

I recognize the philosophy behind "pricing for quality", but if someone's goal

is to make photography a full-time career, then your first priority has to be

"pricing to stay in business." ;)

 

Let's say (just to have some working numbers) you figure out that you can charge

an average of $3000 per wedding, shoot 45 weddings per year, and make enough

money to support your current lifestyle, pay taxes, save for retirement, obtain

health insurance, and pay all of your business-related expenses (including

saving for new equipment).

 

This means that you MUST -- no ifs, ands, or buts -- MUST gross $135,000 each

year in order to remain afloat. That may sound like a lot, but in terms of

running a business, trust me, it's not.

 

Anyway, the final number you come up with doesn't matter. Maybe you only need

to gross $75,000. Maybe you need to gross $750,000. Regardless of the amount,

this number is a non-negotiable if you plan to stay in business AND keep food on

the table.

 

So, I believe THIS is where the question of "quality" comes in. Either you have

the ability to deliver the quality that your budget-level clients want, or you

don't. If people will not pay you what you MUST earn, then this is not the job

for you.

 

Having been in business full-time for only 2 years, I learned VERY quickly that

it didn't really matter what the market would bear, or what people wanted to

pay, or even what I thought was "fair" to charge. If I couldn't meet my bottom

line, I was going to be out of business FAST -- or living under a bridge.

 

We've been very fortunate to find a solid market for what we offer, but the

reality always remains that we have a quota to meet, and if we can't meet it, we

need to find alternate sources of income.

 

Just think of it in more current terms: your house mortgage is, say,

$1500/month. (I don't know where you live, so I'm making this up.) You get

offered your dream job. You'll be doing something you love. You've always

wanted this job. The salary? $1500/month. Hmm.... Does that sound like it

will work for you? Nope.

 

So it doesn't matter how much you love photography. It doesn't matter how

amazing (or pedestrian) your product is. It doesn't matter what the average

rate is for a photographer in your area.

 

All that matters is what you NEED to earn to make ends meet. If this job cannot

provide you with that income, then it is not YOUR job.

 

Ya know?

 

When you're figuring out your pricing, keep that in mind first and foremost. If

you're still learning, and you still have a day job, and you want to charge

pennies on the dollar so you can build a portfolio, that's GREAT. Awesome. Go

for it! But when it's time to quit the day job and go full-time, the only

reality will be how much you can earn. Payday is priority.

[julianj1]

Anne's right ... scary but absolutely sound advice .... my comments ONLY apply if

you have already made that 'minimum bar height' ... hey, but perhaps you are

lucky enough to have a truly low cost base. I envy you if you do! Good luck!

[john_smyte]

OK, I have a Baccalaureate in Medicine (MBA - for some reason, I had to take all

these business classes for over two years!) <p/>To make this post brief (and of

course ethics are subjective): <br/><b>Unethical:</b> Call up your competitors

and act like you want their services. Ask them what they would charge.

<p/><b>Ethical</b>: (I learned this from a painting contractor -as in house

painter):<br/>Keep raising your prices until you're not getting enough work and

then lower them until you hit your own sweet spot. And if you're not making a

decent living, shut down.

[William Michael]

OUCH! . . .no need: it was not a prickle.

 

The question was about pricing a product and a service. That is a business issue, not an emotional issue.

 

 

 

I do not know what SCORE is: would you have to pay money for that service?

 

To give an opinion on the question you posted, I do not need to know the reasons why there has been no strategic pricing plan.

 

 

What you choose to do is entirely up to you: but a good mentor, a good business coach, a good personal trainer, a good teacher, a good accountant, will give unbiased and dispassionate advice based upon facts in regard to unemotional matters, which pricing certainly is.

 

My commentary was offered pro bono, and certainly with no barbs nor prickles. It stated only facts, or judicious opinion of what the facts most likely were.

 

 

WW

[elizabeth_morrissey]

Sorry William but answering how much I make isn't something I want to do over the internet. SCORE is a free service for small busines owners that help create business plans, marketing, etc. I've been to a few meetings and just yesterday set up an appointment to meet with a counselor.