Which 645?

[michael_oxford]

Hey guys, I'm looking to get into medium format, and I've decided that the

Mamiya 645 system is for me. I originally was going to buy the original m645

1000, but then i saw that the prices on the 645 Super and Pro are not that bad -

i have about $500USD to play with.

 

So what i want to know is what are the major differences between the super and

Pro? is it just the more robust winder mechanism? (i'll be getting a motor

drive, and i'm assuming this wold be a big problem) Is the Pro worth the extra

cash? Anyone have experiences of note with these cameras?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[steve_levine]

The only problem with the old bodies, is that they're old. The M645, 1000s, M645 Super, M645J are all many decades old. Although this isn't necessarily a bad thing, old shutters only have some many clicks in them.

The Pro and the E models are the newest and would be my choice.

 

 

 

The Pro's and E models are all plastic. The earlier cameras are all metal, and heavier.

[michael_oxford]

thanks Steven. - after seeing that there is not much price difference between the Super and Pro i think I'm going with the Pro. I don't necessarily mind plastic - I'm not going to beat the living crap outta the camera- it just needs to be solid.

[anthony_hicks]

Michael, do you particularly need interchangeable backs? If not, have you

considered a Pentax 645? Unlike the Mamiyas I had a few years ago (a 1000S

and a Pro) my Pentax has been 100% reliable. It feels very robust, has great

handling, a bright viewfinder, and a built-in motordrive. Its a pleasure to use, and

there are an excellent set of lenses available too.

[michael_oxford]

ehh, I'm not really a pentax guy. only one i've ever considered is the LX, and i wont be getting one anytime soon.

 

I don't NEED the interchangeable backs, but it certainly will be a nice thing to have.

 

i'm pretty positive i'm going with the Mamiya 645 Pro- I'm getting it from KEH with he 80mm lens the back and the power winder. it'll be a pretty sweet setup when i get some more lenses and backs here in a couple months when i get some ore spending money..

 

I'm also looking at the ARSAT 30mm Zodiak- anyone use tis lens on there 645?

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

I prefer leaf shutter lenses since they flash sync at all speeds. I, myself, would choose a Bronica ETRSi if I were in the market for a 645 system.

[dennis_oconnor4]

I'm not sure that interchangeable backs mean anything to me... I don't interchange the backs on my 35mm cameras... I don't interchange the backs on my TLR's... I do interchange the backs on my 4X5 but I sure don't consider that a plus...

 

I can <and do> carry around a pocket full of rolls of 120 film and they are less size and weight than a single intechangeable back... I actually have an extra insert for my 1000, and I don't take it with me, too bulky... Unless you are a pro who is shooting different types of film on the same scene, paying for the interchangeable back looks like paying for a Testarossa just to run to the store for bread and milk...

 

Now, if you want an interchangeable back, more power to you... But it does not take better pictures than the plain jane 645...

 

cheers ... denny

[michael_oxford]

no, i want interchangeable backs- yes, it might be bulky, but i don't really care. with my 35 gear, i always am freaking out if I'm going to shoot B&W or color, and I'm not really a fan of re-winding mid roll just to re shoot the shot on a different emulsion. i have a strong feeling the the interchangeable backs will come in quite handy.

[derek_stanton2]

Hi, Michael.

I recently bought a Pro TL from KEH.

 

Price differences: There are two or three different motor winders for the Pro model.

The latest, of course, is priced a bit higher.

 

There are at least two different prisms: with and without meter (AE).

 

There are different versions of the 80mm lens. There's an 80mm 2.8 and an 80mm 1.9.

Within each of those, i believe, there are "C" and the later "N" versions, which feature

updated coatings.

 

Make sure that, even if you get a winder, you also get a manual crank. Mine, from

KEH, accidentally came without the crank. They did send one quickly, though.

 

The Mamiya system is pretty cool. But, the AE prism is not very bright. Possibly the

Pentax is brighter. But, i prefer the faster 1.9 lens, and interchangeable backs. As well,

you can purchase inexpensive film inserts to use with the one magazine, for quick

loading. That does not allow for midroll switching, though, of course.

[paul_hagan]

I have the super and Pro TL and a pretty extensive (ten lens) kit. I like them a lot! The ProTL just wins for the reasons others have given.

Other thoughts might be the Bronica SQ cameras - they are superb and so are the lenses. I use three SQAi's + half a dozen lenses. Or go for bust and pick up a Pentax 67 - again I use two bodies (no interchangeable back here!) + eight lenses. It is a monster of a camera but the results are superb. The Bronica SQ's are not much heavier than the 645's and you get more negative for cropping. The 67's are much heavier - but worth the bodybuilding. My conclusion is that none of the 645's will disappoint and there are loads of great lenses to go for. The zooms are a pleasure to use. In all cases scans from these negative sizes will blow the socks off you. Unless you lurch into 5x4!!

 

Regards

Paul

[paul_hagan]

Sorry forgot to talk about the 30mm Zodiak. I have the older Zodiak version. The

newer Arsat 30mm is multicoated. The conclusion here is that you get a lot of

bang for your bucks here - mine cost $150.00 on ebay with the rear mounted filters

included. Not quite up to the Hasseblad offering - but then it is less than 1/10 the

cost. Not bad resolution for the money and even pointing into the sun flare is

reasonably controlled. If you don't like the wonky horizontals and verticals there

are many software packages which can correct these from a scan.

Oh if you buy one with the Pentacon6/Kiev mount you will have to factor in the

cost of a lens mount adapter. I know they are also made in 645 mount but these

are the more recent versions and more expensive. Give it a go- its cheap and if

you don't like it you can always shift the lens on Ebay.

I do not use mine much at all - but it is there if I need it!!!!

 

Regards

Paul

[gregory_c]

I' ve owned Bronica ETRS, ETRSI, Mamiya 645E & Pentax 645. The Bronicas were good, had some back issues, leaf shutter was great for weddings; shooting inside, then outside, or varying lighting to avoid shooting at F22. The Mamiya 645E was not worth the $$ I spent for it. Could not tell which insert was in the camera.(120 or 220) I would have to count the # 120 of inserts to see if I had a 220 insert in the camera. Shot 1 wedding with it, then sold it. Images were a little soft. The Pentax, hey, it is not a K1000, made much better. It does have a focal plane shutter, sync @ 1/60, you do know which insert is in the camera. Part of the insert is back of the camera. I like the way the insert goes into the camera opposed to some of the Mamiyas. Really sharp images, built in motor drive, all kinds of lenses available, prism is made onto the camera. For some crazy reason some of the 645's came with a waist level finder. 6x6 is fine, I was raised on a waist level finder on a square format.

[michael_oxford]

Another lens question:

 

anyone ever shoot with the 80mm 1.9? I hear that it's kinda a toss up, but I'm willing to take the risk. how's the Bokeh? Sharpness?

[derek_stanton2]

Michael,

I have the Mamiya 80/1.9. I'm still testing it. I made the mistake of testing the first roll with the front lens element not screwed

in tightly. Didn't recognize that until just a couple of days ago. Anyway, my preliminary tests show really nice bokeh. And, i

bought the lens based on bokeh examples i've seen online:

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.altphotos.com/Gallery.aspx?a=Photo&photoid=365192

 

http://www.altphotos.com/Gallery.aspx?a=Photo&photoid=220510

 

http://www.altphotos.com/Gallery.aspx?a=Photo&photoid=95922

 

http://www.altphotos.com/Gallery.aspx?a=Photo&photoid=95834

 

http://www.altphotos.com/Gallery.aspx?a=Photo&photoid=95665

 

 

http://www.altphotos.com/Gallery.aspx?a=Photo&photoid=221442

 

 

There are two versions of the 80/1.9: a "C" and an "N" version. The N is later, and the knurling on the focus ring grip is easily discernable. The

Ns cost a bit more. I initially tried to get an N, but when i found a mint (almost unused) C version, i took it, and i'm glad. Be aware, also, that the

1.9 is a larger, heavier lens than the 2.8.

[anthony_hicks]

I owned both 80mm lenses when I had Mamiya gear. Sharpness of the f1.9 is fine, although I only tended to use it above f2.8 anyway. I cant comment on the bokeh as it was of no concern to me. I found that the main advantage of the faster lens was that the f2.8 vignetted slightly, whereas the f1.9 didnt.

[michael_oxford]

Wow, Derek, i really like those shots! I am really beginning to think this lens is for me, however, the 80mm 2.8 is so cheap, i might just get both and do a side by side comparison and sell the "junkier" one - heck, i might just keep both.

 

i'll probably just get a "C" ... money is kinda tight, so cheaper the better..

 

also, i'm not deterred by the size.. i've shot with MUCH bigger glass on bigger cameras (Canon EOS 1d w 200mm 1.8 - FUN )

 

thanks again for all your help.

[paul_hagan]

Late response here so I hope you are still tuned in. I use both 80's and the 1.9 does not vignette as already mentioned. My 1.9 is a C and I use a C and N 2.8. I cannot find any real difference between the 2.8's.The 1.9 C version I can recommend so go for it - you will not be disappointed (Certainly sharp enough for my purposes)

Paul