Helping a friend at their wedding - Advice Needed

[todd_phillips4]

Hey all. I am new to this board and am photographing a wedding free of charge for

a friend. I am an avid photogrpaher but my subject is usually landscapes and

nature. You can find my work on my myspace at:

 

www.myspace.com/TAP11

 

After reading in this forum I feel the need to inform everyone that I am doing

this "gratis" (or as Al Swearington said "Free, Gratis") I shoot with a Nikon D200, I

am picking up a SB-800 for this shoot.

 

I shoot with a couple Slow lenses:

 

Nikkor 28-80 3.5-4.5

Nikkor 70-200 4.5-5.6 VR

 

I have shot some "events" in the old film days. I had some decent equipment but it

was stolen. The release of the D70 brought me back into the photo hobby and I

have never been happier.

 

Other equipment:

 

Tri Pod and monopod. Remote Shutter release

 

 

Questions:

 

I used to use a flash bracket. Do I need one? In the past it was for better coverage,

less shadows and additional red eye reduction. I have noticed that most "wedding

Photographers" equipment lists have left this out. If you're opinion is yes, can you

recommend a decent bracket?

 

Battery life. This is a very informal wedding so it will not be long. I do want to

capture the candid shots for my friends and will be there for about 2-3 hours. Do I

need to consider a battery pack for my D200. I don't want to fork out that cash,

right now.

 

Any other advice. I want these to look good for them.

[picturesque]

People used to use brackets more because ISOs were slower and there was less bouncing of flash and more direct flash use. Not the case now. So whether you use one is up to you. If you are still shooting direct flash a lot, perhaps yes. If you are bouncing a lot, you can often get by without it.

 

I wouldn't think you'd need a battery pack--I'm assuming you mean for the camera, not the flash.

[todd_phillips4]

Nadine,

 

Thank you for a quick response. I was referring to the camera yes. I am a little concerned about the Flash's refresh rate. I will have plenty extra batteries for the flash.

 

I will be playing with bouncing and the diffusing Dome. I donot think I will need the bracket.

[scott_b.4]

I would be concern about the flash refresh also. See if you can rent a quantum battery pack in your area. I don't know why Nikon does not make something similar to Canon CP-E4. I just love that battery pack.

 

If you can not find an external power pack, get those high lithium batteries. They last longer and change out batteries before each event. For example, swith out battery before ceremony, change again before reception. I know it maybe a waste but better safe than sorry.

[vincedistefano]

An SB800 will refresh plenty fast. And a bracket is a good idea, unless you want to spend lots of time afterwards in PP removing red eye and harsh shadows. Of course you'll have to buy a TTL cable. Sometimes you won't need it because you can bounce off low ceilings, but other times you'll be glad you have it. One thing I'm learning as a wedding photo assistant now - and somebody who never did a lot of flash photography before - is that unless your subjects are real close, point that SB800 right at the scene and fire away. Of course check your images to make sure nothing's blown out, but generally let TTL do its magic and make sure things are lit.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

I like using a camera bracket: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/105119-REG/Stroboframe_310_900_Camera_Flip_Bracket.html

 

Doubt you'll need external battery. Good luck.

[greg jansen]

Skip the bracket. It will be one more new piece of gear you are not accustomed to, which opens up more possibilities that something will go wrong, something more to think about.

 

Even when shooting close, if you have the flash at a 45 degree angle with the supplied Nikon diffusion dome, you won't get red-eye.

 

Try to shoot at iso 200 and f16, point it straight on and blast the subject with flash, you probably will get some red-eye (and slow recycle).

[todd peach seattle, washi]

I'd skip the bracket.

 

Your lenses are not ones that I would choose, but maybe you have a different shooting style in mind. 28mm on a DX body is pretty close to a 'normal' focal length, and if you have to shoot any groups, you may wish you had something wider. Any rentals in your area? The Nikon 17-55/2.8 is commonly available for rent in large metro markets, and it's an ideal 'event' lens for a DX camera like yours. The Nikon 18-70 'kit lens' is a decent inexpensive choice if you're looking to buy something.

 

One unconventional bit of advice, at least for this forum: if you're new to Nikon's digital flashes, I'd be tempted to just leave the camera in Program mode and the flash in the full iTTL mode. The system is remarkably consistent in doing 'the right thing'. Personal taste may cause you to bias the flash exposure (some folks prefer a touch of 'minus' say 0.3 ev). The system will do what it can to match the ambient light exposure without letting you stray into 'deep water', and it will generally keep recycle times short. You can just concentrate on composition and 'bounce or no bounce' decisions.

[William Michael]

No Flash Bracket, but yes bounced / diffused flash.

 

You do not need ceilings to bounce the flash. If you have covered events with film, you undoubtedly have seen the press photographers use their stiff white card; that is, if you do not want to use the inbuilt and supplied options (I think) that flash unit already provides?

 

Not `hands on` familiar with the recycle under pressure of the SB 800: I`ll leave that question alone, save to comment that if you know critical times when recycling is important, you can get away without a flash battery pack, and plenty of batteries, by controlling your shooting.

 

No battery pack (for camera) but a second (charged battery) for the camera is necessary.

 

Best to have a second body.

 

Even a good quality P&S, perhaps one that takes the SB800 (borrow one?)

 

WW

[paul_sokal___dallas__tx]

Todd,

 

I can't imagine owning a camera and not having a back-up battery, no matter what kind of shooting I'm doing. Imagine if your battery dies; your friends will be without pictures.

 

A bracket is only necessary if you're using direct flash, which I'd strongly argue against, if you want the best looking pictures you can get. The diffuser helps some but you best option is bouncing, and doing so directionally. This will give you nice soft light and dimensional shadowing. I'll often bounce over my shoulder into the ceiling or the walls of the venue. Visit planetneil.com for the details.

 

The sb800, with the 5th battery will recycle pretty fast. The higher your ISO and the larger your aperture, the better for time and battery life. This weekend I shot at ISO 3200 (D3) and recycle time is almost instant and one set of 5 AA rechargeables lasted the entire reception.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Vertical shots with on-camera flash will tend to give some side shadows even when bounced.

 

With a camera flip bracket you can keep the flash directly over the top of the lens and use a Stoffen omnibounce tilted at 45 degrees. Provides for bounce off the ceiling and gives a little fill light straight-ahead. Also provides nice diffused lighting when the ceiling is high and I'm too close to the subject for the light to open-up with bounce alone. Same principle applies if you're using a lightshere.

[William Michael]

Vertical shots . . . good point, noted.

[todd_phillips4]

Great advice and thanks to all. I think the overall consensus is to skip the bracket. I am picking up the SB-800 lithium batteries and a second battery for my Nikon. I errored in my earlier post. My widest angle lens is the 17-70 nikkor "kit Lens"

 

I have also found out that this wedding is going to be around sunset at the beach in Malibu or Santa Monica. I am getting worried about harsh shadows and possible severe back lighting. I have warned my friend but they more or less want to just get married quick and on a budget. I will be practicing with the flash and at the sunset time frames to get a groove.

[picturesque]

Todd--don't ditch the bracket because the majority of people who responded said so. In fact, given your description of the wedding in question, I would use a bracket. Outside in brigher conditions (sunset is still brighter conditions), you will need all the power your flash can muster WITHOUT a modifier. A bounce modifier outside will do no good anyway, with nothing to bounce off. In fact, your guide number will decrease by taking the flash outside without any reflectivity to help it. Using your flash head in the direct/forward position makes the most sense. Perhaps you can get away with a bounce card for close-ups, but for the actual ceremony and full lengths and groups--no way, unless the sun has gone down past the horizon.

 

Depending upon the position of the subjects to the beach/horizon, you may get severe backlighting and the shadows will be harsh. Nothing you can do about it except fill with flash, and since the light is already harsh, using soft fill would be nice, but basically impossible to provide in a fluid situation such as a wedding.

 

If you don't use a bracket, your vertical shots will have that side shadow. I don't know why people think you either have to use a bracket all the time or not use a bracket all the time. I use one when it makes sense, and not when it doesn't matter. Use your head and make up your own mind.

[William Michael]

Yikes! It is all in the detail, isn`t it?

 

Todd: My first answer related to a general question: not a specific Beach Wedding

at Sunset.

 

The fact that you are shooting on a beach at and before sunset means you will

want flash power: and lots of it.

 

Toss away my hard white reflector card, for 95% of shots, except maybe real tight

close ups it will be no use.

 

All diffusers will be worse than useless . . . .

 

You have no ceilings anyway . . .

 

Ah !. . . just re read what Nadine wrote,

 

I was typing my response whilst re reading hers: I am going to write much the

same as she. . .

 

WW

 

PS: 17mm will be much more use than being limited to 28mm.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

During my film years the bracket was absolutely neccessary and I become accustomed to using it all the time. With MF gear and external battery packs it could get pretty heavy over the course of a full day. Now with lightweight dSLR, lightweight bracket, and no external Quantum battery pack...... it's a breeze. It does not prevent you from bouncing or doing anything that could be done without the bracket. It allows you to use direct flash for fill outside in daylight. I keep two camera setups all day, my primary camera on bracket and an extra setup without the bracket and I'll use both during the course of the day.

 

But be careful, you'll look like a professional photographer, so if you're trying to blend in with all the Point & Shooters you'll stand out like a sore thumb. I'm struggling with trying to refrain from commenting about making photography decisions based on an "overall consensus" from this forum, but whatever.........

[todd_phillips4]

I am going to order in a bracket. I am a little worried about the location so I will "scout" it this weekend. Someone left a link above for a bracket.

 

Any other recomendations for a bracket?

[picturesque]

Brackets are very 'personal'. What works for one person is disaster for another. So analyze first before ordering and buy from a place where you can return. Basically, there are two methods. First, flip the flash. Second, flip the camera. Advantages and disadvantages for both, which involve bounce direction and ability and flash coverage. Also, if you turn the camera to left (a necessity with vertical grips) you will not be able to use brackets that have the handle on the left and flip the flash to the left.

 

I have and have used many different brackets. I've settled on two that I use and have made another one for myself that I use a lot now. The two that I use are the Custom Bracket QRS-EV (now E2) and the Flash Frame Flash Flip VF. If you are not going use a bracket all the time, I would recommend you look at the Flash Frame H.O.T. bracket (check B&H), particularly if you only use the bracket when you need direct flash.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

The link I left in the earlier post above is for a "Camera flip" model. The major advantage is the ease of use if you decide to use a Stoffen omnibounce flash difuser. If you used a flash flip with the omnibounce, it would require two adjustments steps.

[picturesque]

You're right, David, which is why I also use the Custom Bracket QRS-EV, which is like your Camera Flip. I use the Flash Flip when I am mostly using direct flash, so I don't have to worry about modifier orientation and the flash head is vertical on a vertical shot. It does make some bit of difference, particularly on wide shots and shots were you are very close to the subject. Todd needs to figure out what would work best for him and what he intends to use.

[William Michael]

> I'm struggling with trying to refrain from commenting about making photography decisions based on an "overall consensus" from this forum, but whatever......... < (DS)

 

My unqualified and definitive statement added to that consensus: i.e: `No Flash Bracket, but yes bounced / diffused flash.`

 

***

 

Firstly, I should not have ASSUMED we would be INSIDE.

 

Secondly, I should not have given definitive advice in an attempt to keep it `as simple as possible`, WITHOUT stating that I was keeping it simple.

 

Thirdly, and more importantly, by not stating that I was just keeping it simple, I made a VALUE JUDGEMENT about the outcomes Todd would have been happy with.

 

That was a mistake.

 

There is enough misinformation about, it should not be added to, with silly mistakes by someone experienced and who should know better.

 

Todd, I apologize, for assuming the quality levels you would want.

 

WW

[todd_phillips4]

William W.... No problem. I appreciate all advice and I donot feel you made any mistake. I assumed it was indoors until the bride-to-be gave some details to my girlfriend.

 

I appreciate everyone's advice. I went with the following:

 

Stroboframe STCF Camera Flip Bracket

 

Nikon NISD800 SD-800 Extra Battery Holder

 

Nikon NISC29 SC-29 TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord

 

Nikon SB-800

 

10 Energizer 2500 mAh NiMH rechargeable batteries and a charger

 

Sunday I plan to visit the location around the same time of day as the wedding and shoot some shots of my GF to test the lighting.

 

Thank you to everyone for their feedback. I will post some pictures of the test run and the actual wedding for some feedback.

 

Todd

[picturesque]

Don't be surprised if you find you can't use the GF at all (perhaps for close-ups and after it gets dim). It is quite demanding of flash power, even with the dome on and used with the dome directly pointing to subjects.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Nadine, I suspect that GF was an abreviation for "girlfriend" in the reply above But it could have been an abreviation for Gary Fong's lightsphere.........

[William Michael]

:)

 

Permission to smile, please.