Titanium in building a View Camera

[dan_smith]

Anyone have an idea of the positives or negatives of using Titanium in building your own view camera? I can get it and am looking at using it for the metal pieces in many places on the camera if it will work well. Any reason not to use it?

[geoffrey_chen]

Pure titanium or titanium carbon steel alloy? On the positive side,

it's light weight and rigid. On the negative side, it's very expensive

and very difficult to process. Good luck, Dan.

[edward_kang]

I seemt to remember an older post in here or photo.net concerning

this.

 

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titanium can be worked by fairly competent machinists. If you don't

have access to large Monarch lathes, Bridgeport Mills, with large

spingle HP, then I wouldn't recommend it.

 

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Titanium is also expensive. I would recommend 6061-T6 aluminum for

structural work and 303 stainless for custom steel work, 316 stainless

for screws and fasteners.

 

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There is no positive for using titanium in a view camera. Titanium is

only good as a structural material because of its high fatigue

strength limit, flexibility, and strength at a decent weight. Aluminum

exceeds titanium in this respect.

 

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Delrin exceeds aluminum as an engineering material for some components

of a view camera.

[trevor_crone1]

The positive sides of titanium is its light weight, strength and its practically corrosion proof. The down sides are its expensive and difficult to work.

I use Ebony field cameras with their titanium hardware they are incredibly strong and rigid yet quite light in weight.

[david_goldfarb]

I gather, as the others have said, that it is very difficult to work

with.

[audidudi]

Perhaps a better forum for your question about using titanium would be

the Cameramakers mailing list. You can find more informaiton about it

at http://rmp.opusis.com/mailman/listinfo/cameramakers

 

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I likewise have access to titanium stock but decided aluminum would be

better (lighter, more cost effective) for the camera I'm building. It

doesn't come with the same bragging rights as titanium, though...

[julio_fernandez]

Hi Dan: Main features were already well described by others, but

beware. There is so much hype about titanium started by Golf doo-

dahs that soon someone will make Titanium toothpaste. If your camera

called for 500 grams of stainless the weight saving would be about

200 grams, no big deal you would be able to tell your Golf friends

that your camera too is Titanium and steal their thunder!!...but

perhaps not, the hype has now moved to Titanium Plus. I do not know

what that is and neither do the golfers but so what, it sounds cool

and worth the money (?)

[pete_andrews]

Errr, I hate to say it, but Titanium toothpaste probably already

exists. One of the most commonly used white pigments is Titanium

Oxide.<br>I even found TiO listed as an ingredient in some 'rosehip

tonic' pills, which were supposedly 'free from artificial flavour and

colouring'. I'd hate to think what they classed as artificial.

[gene crumpler]

Ti02 is probably closer to you than you realize. It is used in many

synthetic fibers. Polyester, nylon, etc. From an old string engineer.

[kerry_thalmann2]

Julio,

 

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Guess that explains all those pre-approved Titanium Visa and

Mastercard offers that seem to clutter my mailbox on a daily basis.

Guess my old Platinum and (gasp) Gold cards aren't as fashionable as

they once were.

 

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WRT to titanium as a material for camera construction, others have

done a good job summarizing it's advantages and disadvantages. It

does have a better strength to weight ratio than steel, so it is

useful for some applications where high strength combined with low

volume is desired. For example, if a very thin, yet strong, piece is

needed due to space constraints, titanium is a good choice. On the

other hand, if all you're looking for is absolute weight savings,

various aluminum alloys, magnesium alloys and carbon fiber are much

lighter, and depending on the application strong enough. Like

titanium, these other materials have their own strengths and

weaknesses.

 

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Aluminum, in general, is the least expensive in terms of both raw

material and manufacturing cost. One of the problems with titanium is

that it's so hard that it tends to dull cutting tools at a more rapid

rate, requiring more frequent replacement and thus higher

manufacturing costs (due to both the down-time required to replace the

cutting tools and the cost of the cutting tools). Aluminum is

realtively soft and easily machined. Also, once hard anodized,

aluminum is very resistant to the elements. Low cost, light weight,

ease of machineability (new word I just invented) corrosion resistant

finish, etc. all combine to explain why so many of the leading large

format cameras (Canham, Toho, Arca Swiss, etc.) are made of hard

black anodized aluminum these days.

 

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Magnesium is even lighter than aluminum, but has it's own issues

(saftey during manufacturing being one). Like carbon fiber, magnesium

is starting to be used in camera support products. I recently

returned from a backpacking trip with another LF photographer, and

atop his carbon fiber tripod was a Velbon magnesium ballhead that

weighed less than 6 oz. The total weight of his tripod and head was

between 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 lbs. Although this combination isn't adaquate

to support a 10 lb. studio monorail (or even a 6 lb. field camera),

for backpaking with his 2 1/2 lb. ultralight field camera, it was a

good match and adaquate for the task. This is a great example of the

weight savings possible using these various materials (in this case

magnesium for the head and carbon fiber for the legs). Just a few

years ago a tripod and head of similar height and capacity would have

weighed at least 2 - 2.5x as much. Three or four years ago I replaced

my Bogen aluminum tripods and three way pan heads with Gitzo carbon

fiber leg sets and aluminum ballheads. The weight of my general

purpose tripod/head combo dropped from 12 1/2 lbs to 6 lb. 2 oz. And

the new conbination is both taller and more rigid. Similar weight

savings (and improved rigidity) was gained for my backpacking

tripod/head (from 9 lbs. to 3 lb. 12 oz.). And it looks like this is

an area where munfuacturers continue to innovate through the use of

new materials (Velbon and Gitzo both have magnesium heads in their

current product lines).

 

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Kerry

[struan_gray]

Anyone know the actual composition of the'magnesium' heads?

If it's pure magnesium I'd hate to use it near a geyser.

[chris_weiner]

Well, I am not a phot professional, but check out Ebony 4x5 cameras.

In particular http://www.ebonycamera.com/cam/main.SV45Ti.SV45TE.html

 

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The SV45Ti is Ebony + Titanium. The cameras are beautiful and rugged

(look at the max extension).

 

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They are expensive though ( http://www.robertwhite.co.uk ) but the

answer is YES you can do Titanium bodies.

 

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Send me a photograph when it's done!

[matthias]

I just build a 8x10 field camera and did the metal parts of aluminium.

To anyone who wants to do that (stole from the Beatles): let it be. I

made this fault because it was a little cheaper than brass and I

regret it. The material smears and so you have to do a lot more work

on it than on harder metal. I strongly recomend to use brass, and put

clear varnish after polishing on it. Of course you can use Titanium

but it brings no benefit to you rather to the seller.

[dan_smith]

I will ask this in the thread rather than asking a new question. If I

have access to almost all kinds of metals, which would be better than

another in making the pieces needed for a View Camera? I can get

brass, copper, titanium, stainless steel, aluminum and many alloys in

pieces, sheets & odds & ends. Part of the making of a personal View

Camera is just the idea of doing it and part is in making one that

has the best attributes of my favorite Deardorff with the little

things I would like it to have to make it 'mine'. Things like a front

standard made to fit the specific lens collection I have and plan on.

A bit tighter movements, more like my Linhof. A front shift (cross)

movement. Built in spirit levels. All the things that I like from the

various cameras I have and have had, with inlaid wood for vanity

reasons (I do woodworking & this is a nice touch for purely personal

reasons) exotic metals that work with light weight & strength... and

no varnish or coatings on them if possible. (one reason Titanium is a

consideration)

 

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I am still looking for the right bellows materials. Leather has a

major attraction but finding leather thin enough that will take a

color & look right is one I am working on right now. I like a

burgundy or purple rather than black but this could change. Even a

really nice synthetic is an option if I can find the right materials.

 

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So, anyone know of practical reasons to choose one metal over another

when I have friends who are master machinists who can help with the

work & design and can get the metals needed (or wanted) for free?

[darin_cozine]

Titanium s used in many aviation applications, partially because of its strength/weight, but also because of its extremely high temperature melting point. The landing gear of the SR-71 (mach-3 spyplane) used to be the largest peice of forged titanium in the world.