400D+Grip vs 40D...

[chris_o]

I've finally decided that now is the time for me to buy a digital Canon body - I'll maintain my love

of film, but look forward to digital being my main output, for various reasons. I've got some travel

coming up in India, and I'm covering a friend's wedding soon, plus, there's a cashback offer on

Canon at the moment... so now's the time.

 

I'm no pro but could consider myself a 'serious amateur' I guess: I've got some decent canon

lenses already, so it's body issues.

 

 

I can get a 400D+Battery Grip new for under ﾣ400 ($800?).

 

The 40D is about ﾣ500 now with cashback.

Once you consider battery grip etc, I guess it's ﾣ600 ($1200?) all in.

 

 

I am on a budget, but would that ﾣ200 extra be seriously worthwhile? I know the 400D is

considered by serious photographers to be 'entry level', and some have issues with smaller size

etc - my thought is that's largely fixed for me with the grip, and I don't have esp large hands... I

know the 40D has better controls, fps, screen size etc, but of course still not full-frame sensor.

 

My instinct is I can take the 400D up to its potential, and perhaps less likely to use everything

40D offers although would grow into it... ﾣ200 is still a very significant difference for me, and I

could spend that cash on lenses...

 

Arg! Any advice gratefully received.

 

Chris

[sheer]

Hi,

 

Why don't you consider the 450d instead. A review here:

 

http://the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-Rebel-XSi-450D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

 

shows, from what I can see, a significant image quality improvement between the 400d and the 450d and this camera seems like a nice midway point between the 400d and the 40d (though there are claims that it beats the latter in image quality).

 

As a rebel XT owner (350d) one of my main issues is the small view-finder. I know the 40d has a much larger VF though still smaller than standard full-frame (from what I've heard). I'm not sure about the 450d but if you're coming from the film world this might be a very important issue for you so you might want to try it out in-store first.

[chris_o]

Thanks for your input.

 

450D+Grip = about 550 pounds, $1000-1100

 

I'm not too fussed about screen size really (I have got point+shoot digitals - I'll be

using this with my eye in the proper place!)

 

400D+Grip = 400 pounds

450D+Grip = 550 pounds

40D + Grip = 600 pounds

 

I'm not massively convinced in the improvements of 450 being worth the price

difference from the 400 - if I was going for the 450D+grip I'd just spend the extra and

get the 40D+Grip...

 

So I still feel it's between the low and high price options and whether you're getting

just as much value for money at the top end as the excellent deal at the lower...

[cabbiinc]

I have both a 40D and a 400D w/ battery grip. Both are about the same size but the 40D beats the pants off the older 400D without blinking. If you plan on getting the one with the kit lens for just a bit more the 40D's kit lens 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 Image stabalized lens is far superior to the 400D's 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 lens. If you havent shot with an 18mm on a crop frame you probably wont miss it either.

 

The only reason I would tell someone to go ahead and get a 400D is so they can take the extra cash and purchase a decent lens to go with it. But even then the 40D has a top ISO of 3200 (h on the ISO dial), not that you would want to try to shoot anything critical at that ISO but it's there.

 

I cant comment on the 450D as the only one I have ever seen didnt have a lens attatched.

 

The xxD series cameras give you two independant wheels for aperture and shutter speed when in manual mode, the xxxD series doesnt.

The xxD series are more rugged.

The 40D has a seperate sync port on the side of the camera which is good if your going to use both on camera flash and off camera flash simultaneously.

 

The 450D takes an SD memory card where as all of Canons other dSLRs take a CF memory card (doesnt make much difference if you have to buy any memory card since this is your first dSLR, but its something to keep in mind).

The 40D can control the custom functions of an attatched external flash from in camera. The 400D cannot but I believe the 450D can.

 

Bottom line is, if you have nice Canon mount lenses then go ahead with the 40D. But if not then you may consider the 400D and a good lens, as the lens will make a bigger difference than the body, and when your body wears out your lens will still be a good lens.

 

Dan

[eric merrill]

I'd go for the 40D, no questions asked.

 

I owned a 400D and currently own a 40D. It's definitely a step in the right direction.

 

The lack of a thumbwheel on the 400D is severely limiting if you ever use manual exposure.

 

 

Eric

[chris_o]

Thanks to both of you - succinct and informative.

 

I suspect my credit card is about to take some punishing...

[tridakfoto]

Hey Chris

 

I have both the 40D and the XTi with the battery grip as well and I had the same dilemma when I was first looking to make the purchase last year.

 

Did you try out both the bodies? To see how they feel to you and which may suit you better?

 

When I did that I ended up taking the 40D without question as it was more rugged and I loved the thumb dial and ease of use compared to the XTi's button dials.

 

It is definitely a hard choice when we do not know what it is you wish to shoot besides the wedding and maybe some scenery in India? For any of those scenarios I would say if money is an issue to go for the XTi and get decent glass if you can.

 

IF you are looking into shooting sports or anything where you would like high speed shooting (wildlife, children ...) then get the 40D.

 

I can tell you this much ... if I shoot a subject with both bodies and compare them, you would be hard pressed to see a difference in image quality! When it comes down to choosing between the two it should be because of the body itself and how it feels to you, the menus, dials etc. The differences in the newer 40D technology compared to the Rebel's somewhat older tech.

 

For me I love both (but only the XTi WITH grip, not without! 2 small) HOWEVER, the 40D has many advantages over the XTi and I have also used the new XSi and would still take the 40D over this new model anyday. In fact I'd take the XTi over the XSi to be honest because I hate the fact they use SD cards now for the new Rebel!

 

I may not have helped you at all but I can tell you that trying them out in a store may help you make your decision much easier.

 

I chose the 40D first but did get the XTi as my backup camera now and if money were an issue I would honestly get the XTi first and put my extra money elsewhere. Lenses and accessories (tripod etc) will last you far longer then the body which you will upgrade before you know it!

[stein_andersen]

40D. Hands down!

[nic_brown]

Other plus points for the 40d:

 

- Battery life, no need to fire up the rear screen unless chimping.

- The top LCD and controls lets you casually set up your camera for a shot, then

you can get the camera up and shoot quickly - an underrated feature for candid

street photography.

- On that note, no need to mess around with menus. You are paying a lot of money

for your travel. Get the shots you need rather than touring the world spending all

your time fussing with menus,

 

Yes, the XTi is a cheaper camera. Yes, you should spend the money on glass

instead. In the end, I felt the xxxD is a point and shoot with interchangeable lenses

from a usability perspective.

 

What I did was spend even more money, and got the 40D AND the glass. Despite

being more expensive, value wise it was easily worth the price difference.

[cabbiinc]

Nic Brown wrote: "What I did was spend even more money, and got the 40D AND the glass. Despite being more expensive, value wise it was easily worth the price difference."

 

Nic brings up a great point here. If your going to buy the 40D anyways then dont bother with the 400D since you will be buying the 40D eventually to satisfy your desire anyways. More cost up front but less cost in the long run.

 

Dan

[chris_o]

Many thanks for all your excellent contributions to the discussion.

 

I think perhaps the most fascinating aspect brought up is that to many, there is little

discernible difference in straightforward image quality between the two, and thus the

physical attributes of the 40D come more into play than anything else?

 

Aside from higher fps, it is more robust, has more useful interface (additional dial

and screens), and simply 'feels' more pro... I hope I won't offend anyone by

suggesting there is a certain amount of snobbery toward the 400 then? (Which I

hasten to add I fall into myself... the more pro looking camera certainly appeals).

 

Perhaps I can throw this into the mix then...

 

Would you have any hesitations in buying the 40D refurbished from a reputable

seller? I'm beginning to suspect this should be my solution...

 

Refurbished 40D body + grip at a little more cost than a new 400D+grip, but using

the savings effective by buying 2nd hand to invest in better glass...?

 

This mid-market is very tricky - clearly money is of consequence, or I'd probably not

be looking at either in the first place!

 

Thanks for all your help.

[stein_andersen]

Not snobbery. The 400 body is too small for many people's hands. (Including mine, and a 400 is what I've got.) And the ruggedness of the 40 sure feels a lot safer when attaching heavy lenses. I recently posted a thread about that.

 

It has a much brighter and larger viewfinder, faster continous shooting, newer Digic III processor that's fasterthan the 400's Digic II. It also works in 14 bits instead of the II's 12 bits.

 

If you can afford it, then I really recommend you get the 40D. I wish I had. If not, you'll be perfectly happy with the 400 as well.

[dpassmore]

I have just recently purchased my first dslr and debated between XSi (450D) and 40D. IQ and button pushing was a wash to me personally so the only criteria was hands-on ergonomics (considered the rebel only because of lower $). After holding the XSi for 10 min in the store my hand was already starting to cramp (I'm 6'1" - larger hands). Thought I'd try it with the grip - hated it! It feels great in the portrait position but terrible horizontal (normal).

 

In the end I chose the 40D due to comfort holding it for long periods of time, and rebates on right now made the decision easier. I did not get a grip at this time.

 

I don't think there is that much difference between the 450D and 400D in terms of size.

 

Just my 2c.

[chris_o]

Cool, 2c received with thanks.

 

I'll go and play with them this weekend and weigh everything up.

[chris_o]

So I've tried both out in the shop.

 

Damn.

 

40D it has to be! Clearly worth the money.

I'd love a 2nd hand one though (anyone in the UK parting with one?!).

Bizarrely, all the refurb'd available on internet are selling for over ﾣ500, which is the

price of a new 40D body now with the rebate... don't people research what they're

after?