D300 or just another D70

[michael_hill3]

I've searched and read most of the threads concerning the upgrade question. Forgive me if this

is really old hat but i wanted to give my specific case and see what people thought.

 

Own D70 for three years.

Lenses:

18-70 (kit)

70-300 G (rarely use...maybe 5 times)

35mm AF 2.0 (lives on camera)

85mm AF 1.8 (next in line behind 35mm. Use for headshots and portraits)

50mm AF 1.8 (here and there use.)

SB 800 (not used to its potential)

 

Things i might take for granted with d70

1. have two 2 gig CF cards and one 4gig card. NEVER run out of space. Dump frequently and

use laptop if shooting wedding etc. Shoot RAW.

2. Can forget to charge battery and use for light shooting for three days. Never a problem.

3. Weight.

4. Hard drive space.

5. Read iso 200 is less noisy then on d200 or 300. (please correct if i'm wrong)

 

Things that bother me.

1. Dirty sensor since I switch lenses a lot now. 35-85 85-35 etc.

2. AF makes me nervous. hard to preview with LCD to see if shot is in focus. Camera

searches for the focus often. I use the middle sensor and just lock and then reframe.

3. Shoot in low light often, results sometimes soft.

 

I mainly use my camera on film sets (low light fast action...these are student films) , traveling,

or when I do headshots or portraits. I never shoot in auto mode. I've used a d2x and was not overwhelmed with the difference. This was probably due to using it for 2 days and not pushing

the features. The FPS was just cool.

 

I'm happy with my lenses mainly because I do not want to buy the 17-55. I usually rent it. It is

too big.

 

But I do feel the need for a second body since my D70 broke on me when i was in mexico.

Turned into a good thing though...enjoyed the trip more perhaps. I'm about to travel to central

america and I have a wedding gig fast approaching. Is it worth a D300 or should i go second

D70 with what i shoot and use.

 

Money is an issue in the sense that I would feel guilty for buying something that is 1700 dollars.

 

Tried to be short...I guess i failed. Would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks!

[Matt Laur]

You didn't fail (at being short). This has to count as one of the most useful questions I've seen all week, in that you actually conveyed your regular use, what's important to you, and your general sense of priorities (fiscal and otherwise).

<br><Br>

All that being said... I worry that if you worked with a D300 you'd possibly never pick up the D70 again. Why?

<br><br>

1) Viewfinder. Much larger, brighter, and with more information.

<br>2) AF (especially with your slower/darker lenses) would be far more nimble.

<br>3) Your ISO200 performance will NOT be worse. Remember that the D300 has much higher resolution. In real life, looking at a finished work, the D300's dynamic range and noise performance will definitely be better. Your film set work should be much easier to achieve.

<br><br>

You might be annoyed, depending on your hand size, at the slightly larger/heavier body (though you'll be pleased by the ruggedness). You won't be annoyed at the battery life. You will be flumuxed by the new LCD display.

[Matthew Brennan]

I'd like to second Matt's sentiments - both on the quality of the question and also his answers. My experience has been initially D70 then D200 and now recently D300.

 

The weight issue is negligable from my experience unless you intend using the battery grips (which I happily do)

 

Battery life of the D300 is very good , much as the D70 and far better than my recently departed D200

 

Autofocus on the D300 is vastly superior - period.

 

LCD review screen is actually worth looking at on the D300

 

The viewfinder will be a revelation to you coming from a D70

 

As for the menus/ shooting settings and features- that is my only 'concern'. I found it quite a jump in camera set up from the D70 to the D200, but once learned on the D200, mercifully, the D300 has been relatively easy to pick up thus fay (I've been shooting with it for 3 weeks) I expect you will find it quite a process learning where everything is and discovering how to use the D300's settings but one familiar with menu and settings I expect you will never regret upgrading.

[eric_arnold]

mike, sounds to me like you might have outgrown the d70. why fight NAS? a broken body is a justifiable reason for an upgrade. :)

[ken_kartes]

I have shot with the D70s for a few years now and upgraded to the D300 about a week ago, it is worth every penny. I am still learning the features of the D300, and its capabilities. One biggie is the better noise handling and focusing in low light. Battery life is not as good in the D300 as the D70 but I ordered an extra Nikon battery from Walmart for $38.84 shipped to my local store. The body is different in holding than the D70 but not in a bad way. Other than the cost factor and getting used to the addtional weight it better in every aspect, I really like being able to use my old Nikkor manual focus lenses.

[bwcombs]

Perhaps you should look into a D200 as your next step. You can find one at a reasonable price, and it is a logical step in the progression.

[lisa_b4]

Kudos to you Michael for not simply sucumbing to the desire for the latest and greatest. I can relate very much to your philosophy here--it's a not a matter of what I can literally afford to buy, but rather how I balance that against what I need, what I want, and what I feel comfortable in having.

 

That being said, I'd suggest you consider picking up a lightly used D200. There are quite a few of them out there right now due to their previous owner's caving in to upgraditits and buying D300's! I've seen D200's with less than 2,000 clicks selling for $850--truly the most bang for the buck in the DSLR world right now.

 

The difference between a D70 and D200 is huge--build quality, mirror lock up, ISO 100, metering with MF lenses, etc. The only downside to the D200 IMHO is battery life--though to me it's the difference between carrying 2 extra batteries or 3--not a big deal.

 

There's also the D80 to consider as well.

 

The D300 is a very nice camera, but considering your comment above about using a D2X when you had you D70 and not being "wowed" by it, I'm thinking you might be more comfortable with something a little simpler and less flashy.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Lisa

[michael_hill3]

Wow! I just commuted home and am overjoyed with all the responses. Thanks for

all the feedback!

 

Lisa: I was not wowed by the picture quality of the D2x. However, using it was a lot

of fun. loved the burst and the vertical grip. Also, how do I find out how many

clicks a camera has when looking to buy?

 

How great is the dust removal system on the D300 and is this worth the difference

btw the two cameras?

 

Just to clarify, I still have my D70, after it broke I had it sent to nikon and had it

fixed.

 

Thanks again everyone! I have some good things to think about.

[tri-x1]

I don't know how good the dust removal is. I have switched lenses frequently over the past three months and run the cleaning cycle periodically and have never had to clean the sensor. BUT, I am very careful when changing lenses. The sensor cleaner isn't worth the difference between the D200 and the D300. The D300s high res sensor by itself isn't worth it nor is live view (I never use it).

 

The D300's double or triple battery life over the D200 might not be worth the difference in price. The 12 megapixel sensor on the D300 isn't that much better resolution-wise than the D200.

 

But when you add dust removal higher resolution sensor PLUS better high ISO PLUS bigger, brighter, sharper LCD, PLUS longer battery life, PLUS built-in D lighting, PLUS etc, etc, etc and IMO the D300 is far and away a better investment than the D70 or the D80 or the D200.

[studor13]

As much as I like my D70, in truth it really only has around 4 1/2 stops of latitude.

 

I get around it by bracketing but if the D300 has say 6 stops latitude, I'd say it's time to retire the D70.

[samoksner]

People have been suggesting the D200 as an alternative to the D300, but I would suggest you consider the D80 as well, although it isn't much of an upgrade, it probably will be a step up in the few things you do.

 

The D80 has about an extra stop of available light shooting depending on how tolerant you are, but i would say that 800 is usable with no excuse and ISO 1600 is certainly better then in the D70. More important then that, the bigger brighter LCD and MUCH nicer viewfinder. Those last two are worth quite a bit.

 

However, the D80 takes SD cards as opposed to your CF cards. However, SD cards arn't too expensive at all, around 25 bucks for a 2 gig sandisk extreme II whihc is a great card.

 

As opposed to spending $1700 on a D300, i would get a brand new D80 (or a used one for 50 bucks less) for $729 with warranty and everything, with the money saved, you probably won't feel too bad about keeping the D70 and keeping another lens attached to it as opposed to trying to sell it or something in order to even out the cost shock of a D300.

 

Consider the D80, the price is good, and it fits your budget quite well, hell you could get two for the price of a D300, and even get an MB-D80 vertical grip for it for $129.

 

Sam

 

btw: all this advice, I took it myself, i did just that a couple months ago!

[kohanmike]

I can't wait to replace my two D70s bodies with the D300, but on the other hand, I

have to say it's great having two bodies, I've done so since 1976 with two F2 bodies

and would not work any other way.

[kohanmike]

I meant that i will get two D300 bodies.

[bruce_margolis]

Michael, I enjoyed using the D80 for a year before getting a D300. The D80 is nice but the D300 is a giant leap in terms of features. If you use the added features, the upgrade is worthwhile. If they are not that important to you, maybe best to stick with another D70.

[russ_konrad]

<b>"...Things i might take for granted with d70 1. have two 2 gig CF cards and one 4gig card. NEVER run out of space. Dump frequently and use laptop if shooting wedding etc..."</b>

<p>

I am assuming that you must mean shooting at a wedding that you happened to be attending - NOT being a wedding photographer. If - however - you are shooting weddings as a professional, you should definitely upgrade to the D300 and use your D70 as a backup.

[ShunCheung]

The D200 is a big improvement from the D70, and in turn the D300 is a big improvement from the D200. The D300 is also a major improvement from the D2X, but the areas of improvement are somewhat different.

 

If you are shooting weddings professionally, I would get a D300 and hopefully you are making money so that you can afford one. The D300 has much improved high-ISO performance and better AF than the D2X and D200. Additionally, images from the D300 usually require less post-processing. All of those are important advantages for wedding photographers.

 

And it is indeed important for wedding photographers to have back ups. Since the D70, D200 and D300 use the same types of CF memory cards and the EN-EL3e batteries work on all of them, it is convenient to use a D70 to backup a D200 or D300.

[Two23]

If the D70 isn't working, here's what I'd suggest. Buy another D70 from eBay or KEH etc. and sit tight. The Nikon D80 is due for replacement, probably by October. That camera will be about half the price of the D300 but have most of its advantages. I think that is the camera for you. Another thought is you could buy a used D80 now and wait for the replacement. If you photo weddings for $$, you obviously do need a back up camera. The D80 takes pretty clean photos at ISO 800, and I expect the replacement to up that one more notch even. The current D80 will do what you want and it has a very good viewfinder etc. A D70 now and a D80 replacement in a few months would also be a very economical way to go. The Nikon mid-level cameras are their greatest bargains. The D80 can use the SB-800 to its full potential, gy the way. We're talking wireless off camera flash here (within reason.) That could be a huge advantage for you right there.

 

 

Kent in SD

[summitar]

I have had the D70 for four years. Great camera and I still have it. A few months ago I bought a used D80. The seller had a 14 day buyers remorse program, so I brought it back and instead got a low milage D200. The D80 was not that much of an upgrade over the D70 and seems to have matrix metering problems. The D200 is a large improvement over the D70 and can meter with my old AI lenses. I have no doubt that the D300 is better than the D200, but the changes are mainly in areas that I as an amateur rarely venture. I would like the hi-res LCD. My only complaint against the D200 is shorter battery life, so now I carry a fully charged spare (did so with the D70 also, but rarely need it). Going to a lightly used D200 saved me about $1000 counting sales tax. Remember when the D200 came out about two years ago, it was treated as a wunderkind also. The D300 high frame rate, extended ISO capability, and faster focus are not very important to the kind of photography I do, family and scenics. If I were a pro, and could write off the equipment or was into sports photography, I might reconsider.

[raymond_petty1]

Shun always give such great advice. You really have to ask yourself, "How much would I use being able to shoot at ISO 1600?" You can with a D300 and you can't (with any real quality) with a D200.

If you're shooting wedding's I think it's a fairly straightforward progression.

Cameras today are really computers attached to a lens and should be purchased with the same mindset. Buy new and keep it a longer time as opposed to buying used.

[pcnilssen]

I have used a D70 for about 3-4 years, and recently ugraded to a D300. I thought the upgrade over and over again, debating with myself: Do I really need the D300. I was very satisfied with my D70, and it gives me a lot of nice pictures.

 

What finally made me buy the D300 was the fact that my daughter has started to dance discojazz/freestyle, with monthly competitions in badly lit sports arenas. The D70 couldn't cope with the light without hith ISO, and the noise in those pictures were really bad. (No way of using flash in these competitions). The higher fps was also highly appreciated. The D300 got excellent reviews in those for me problem areas, so I finally took the plunge and bought it.

 

I am very satisfied with the camera, and I am sorry to say that my good trustworthy D70 has been collecting dust almost all the time since that.

 

If you were limited in any way with your D70, I would get the D300. You will not be unsatisfied. If your old D70 did not give you any problems with your shooting style, I would get another one, and rather wait for the D300 to go down in price.

[vincent_stanford]

I have a D200 for my primary camera and an older D70 for backup. As a landscape photographer who sells large format prints the D200 is hands down better. The mirror slap is much quieter with the D200 and you can do mirror lockup for tripod shots with the best clarity. The 10 MP sensor gives enough resolution for clean prints at 28x18 size. The D70 goes up to 18x12. The I have done photojournalist shoots at weddings with an 80-200 f2.8 at 1600 ISO using the D200 and with the help of Noise Ninja made prints that the families love. The metering on the D200 is also more flexible, and the the autofocus faster. I would say that if you are price sensitive take the earlier advice someone gave and get a lightly used D200 from someone who just had to have a D300 to get the latest thing.

[michael_kuhne]

The D80 is quite a camera. It has many on body controls instead of in menues. It's low noise performance at 1600 ISO is superior to the D200 without meaningful loss of detail. See Imaging Resource website, click on compare images, and 1600 ISO test of each camera model, then click on enlargement icon in lower right corner for blowup. In the lower right portion of the image, there is a cup near green leaves of a plant, where shadow noise can clearly be seen.

 

The D300 also achieves very low noise, but there is some loss of detail visible in many objects in the scene. Images suggest it exposes more to right of histogram to reduce noise, with a slightly lighter exposure. It is also much more costly. You will not be able to see a distinct difference between 10mp and 12 mp.

 

The D200 is likely to be phased out, and the D80 replacement likely will cost more than the D80's current price. The D80 matrix meter seems to be closer to a center weighted, like a more refined version of that. So if you have worked with center weighted bias, you'll do fine or can easily adjust.

[mary_naughton]

Want to start by saying that I've been a lurker at photo.net on and off for the last couple of years and have enjoyed reading many of the posts here. Decided to take the plunge and join the group.

 

An earlier poster stated that D70 prints go up to 18 x 12. Well, I'm here to tell you that's baloney. I've enjoyed using a D70 for the last 3 years and have been toying with the idea of upgrading to the D300. Since I'm not a pro I couldn't justify the cost of the D300 but was going to spring for it so I would be able to get bigger enlargements. I decided to try having one of my images taken with the D70 enlarged to 30 x 20 and was very pleasantly surprised. The 30x20 enlargement is awesome! I had it professionally framed and have received countless compliments on it.

 

Since I know I can get excellent quality prints larger than 18 x 12 from my D70, I'm going to stick with it for a while and concentrate on buying better qaulity glass. However, in response to the original poster's dilemma, all of the research I have done would point to buying a new D300.

[pcnilssen]

Forgot in my earlier post:

D300 is an awesome camera, but you need to get used to it, especially if you are going to use it on a paid wedding job. IF you are going to buy it, do it soon, so that you are familiar with it when your job starts, or - rent/loan a D70 until you are familiar with the D300.

[michael_hill3]

Thank you to everyone for your thoughts! I have not made a decision as of yet but

you have all given me much to think about and have been very helpful!