Moving to Mamiya from Leica M soon.

[cao_minh_duc]

Hi folks,

 

I am a long time Leica M user and recently I need to do more fashion studio work

and really 35mm is now a limiting factor for me.

 

I looked at Mamiya 67 but as I got used to the compact shape of Leica, I got

more interested in Mamiya 7. Frankly after reading some reviews, it only makes

things harder to decide.

 

I would like to hear from you who are experienced enough. Is the rather long

focusing distance is not suitable for studio work? (I'm planning on the 65mm and

80mm lenses)

 

Also as usually I use f1.4 to achieve bokeh with my Leica portraits, the fastest

I can get with Mamiya 7 is f4 which seems a bit limiting (eventhough this is

medium format I reckon). Will I be able to achieve beautiful background blur

with these lenses?

 

Last but not least, I have heard that the Mamiya 7 is of very low build quality?

Can anyone confirm this please? It won't be abused as much as my Leica but

still, it's nice seeing you gears can last quite a while.

 

My thanks

[jrjacobs]

Cao -

 

On medium format, you need much smaller apertures to get the same depth of field you are used to in 35mm. So typically, f/4 in medium format is closer to f/1.7 in 35mm format, in terms of DOF, f/2.8 is similar to f/1.4. Also, keep in mind that 65mm and 80mm lenses are considered "wide" lenses in medium format, equivalent to a 30mm and 40mm lens in 35mm terms - not the most flattering for shooting fashion.

 

If you are used to rangefinders, the Mamiya 7 can be a good choice, although you are limited on lenses. Most fashion photographers shooting film, however, use an SLR of some type (Hasselblad, Pentax 6x7, Mamiya RZ67) - there is a reason for this.

 

I don't think the Mamiya 7 is low build quality - it is comparable to most medium format cameras.

[michael_darnton1]

Someone with more authority can confirm this, but I have heard that the Mamiya 7 lenses are the sharpest MF lenses, bar none.

[cao_minh_duc]

Hi,

 

Thank you for your quick replies. Actually I knew about the focal length factor but not quite sure about DOF. Thanks for clarify this.

 

The studio I work for do not care about whether it is 645 or 67 but I choose 67 believing this is a more popular format for fashion work.

 

I would love a reflex but honestly, I detest the size and weight. Often I find chunky cameras are too difficult to use in my own creative way. So I think I would settle for a rangefinder instead.

 

So it seems like most of you would not worry about the sighly long closest focusing distance?

Thanks

[Ed_Ingold]

While you can do portraits with a Mamiya 7, a rangefinder does not have the framing accuracy you would normally want in this application. It is not the equal of a Leica, which has marginal accuracy at best. Close focusing should not be an issue, since portraits are typically taken further than 4 feet from the subject. Nor should f/4 be an impediment if you are using strobes. The Mamiya 7 is mostly plastic, which is not necessarily bad. An 150mm or 180mm would be more appropriate for portraiture, unless you intend to distort the subject in non-flattering ways. You need an auxillary finder for lenses other than 65/80/150.

 

If you want to go 6x7, then an RB or RZ reflex would be a better choice for studio work (and location work, IMO). If you might go digital in the future, then I'd go with Hasselblad for starters.

[spanky]

Don't be put of by the bulk and weight of an RZ/RB. All the shots in my gallery were taken with an RZ67 ProII and about 99% hand held.

Like anything else, just takes some getting used to.

 

I recently looked at a Mamiya 7II in a store. Seemed sturdy enough but didn't like the focusing. Seemed like it would take me longer then with an SLR. OTOH, I too have heard about the lenses being the sharpest on the market. As always, best thing to do would be to rent both cameras if possible and see how they fit your needs.

[kam_qu]

mamiya is a good camera.my advise would be to go with contax 645 awesome

camera with superb lenses for portraits,fashion and landscape etc.

[rod_sainty2]

Cao, My take on your questions:

 

1. Focusing distance: The 80mm and 65mm lenses focus down to 1m, so that should suit fashion just fine. If you're used to Leica M, then I doubt that focussing or framing accuracy will be issues for you.

 

2. Background blur: You'll have no trouble getting background blur with the 80mm lens at f4 or 5.6. With 6x7 format, often the challenge is getting sufficient depth of field. And the lenses are sharp at f4.

 

3. Build: The Mamiya 7 has a metal die-cast body and plastic exterior covers and shutter speed dial. So does my Pentax 67II. Yes, the large shutter speed dial on the M7II is too coarsely ribbed, so feels cheap, which I think overly influences some people. I haven't heard of any problems with the wind gears on the M7 or M7II.

 

You can down-load the M7II brochure from the Mamiya US website: http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/M7II/M7II_Brochure_English.pdf

 

Regards,Rod

[Scott Ridgeway www.Scott]

I used to shoot with a Pentax 67. I now use a Mamiya 7II, and absolutely love it. That said, for what you're proposing, I'd go with the Pentax. For one, with the Mamiya, the lens protrudes into the viewfinder in the lower right corner a good bit. Secondly, it's not going to be nearly as easy, quick or forgivable to focus as a Leica. The Pentax would be a little better for this. As I said, I love the Mamiya, but I'd go with the P67 for this.

[eric_brody]

Do a search! I and other M7II owners have written extensively on the strengths and weaknesses of the Mamiya 7 range finders. Having said that, the M7 is not a camera I'd recommend using in the studio. The RB/RZ or Hasselblads are much more versatile. The real strength of the M7II is its superb lens quality, though some pretty amazing images are regularly made with RB/RZ's and Hassy's. Otherwise it's great for its portability and light weight. I use mine for travel and hiking. These are not studio virtues. The build quality is fine. Close focusing is not terrific. You'll get pretty distorted portraits with the 65. Even the 80 is a bit wide on 6x7.

 

Good luck and ... do a search.

 

Eric

[cao_minh_duc]

Hi,

 

Thank you all for your great inputs. I'm looking at the 645 which attracts me for its smaller size. I have the feeling that 645 is a bit too small for fashion works :). It's bad mulling about rangefinder vs slr or 645 vs 67.

 

In fact, I'm not shooting head and shoulder portraits, I would like to included studio set up and surroundings as well. In this regards, the equivalent of 35mm and 50mm lenses on 35mm format is more desirable.

 

Cheers

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

You may find the following link useful for determing DOF:

 

http://dofmaster.com/doftable.html

 

As for camera choice, the Mamiya 7 II is superb within its limitations. The lenses are very shrp with nice bokeh, IMHO. It is well-built. There is some plastic used, but the frame of the camera is metal amd is very solid. And the leaf shutter lenses sync at all speeds.

 

SLRs are more versatile, but they are also bulky and heavy. The Mamiya RZ or RB are options that also have leaf shutters. The Pentax 67 is focal plane, so flash sync is SLOW. Another option is the Bronica GS-1. Leaf shutters and lighter than the Mamiya RZ. Focusing distance isn't as close, but you can buy extension tubes if needed.

[derek_stanton2]

I know you're used to rangefinders, but i would NEVER want to use an RF as my sole

instrument for fashion work. The lenses are slow. They don't focus close. The framing isn't

accurate. You can't see DOF effects. Composition is 'loose' because you're dealing with

'crop lines' in the middle of the frame, rather than seeing 'concrete' boundaries.... Perhaps

most importantly, with a rangefinder, as you know, you can't effectively focus outside of

the center patch. Especially if you're using a tripod, it is very cumbersome and inaccurate

to focus in the center and then recompose. With any SLR, you can focus virtually anywhere

in the frame and without recomposing. This is especially important if you're shooting at

wide apertures and/or with medium format lenses, with their inherently shallower DOF.

 

I just did an indoor session with natural light, with a Hassy, 5D, and film SLR. And, every

once in a while, i pulled out a 35mm RF for a few shots, and was reminded of how

inappropriate it was for that kind of work. Yes, yes, i'm sure there are some people who

prefer it and do wonderful work. But, you'd have to search far and wide to find a working

professional who uses one effectively. There's a reason for that.

 

If you're serious about fashion, the current machine of choice is the Hassy H. But, over the

past 10-20 years, it's been the Mamiya RZ67 and the Pentax 67. Yes, both are large, and

heavy. But, they do things and have qualities that make the 'suffering' worthwhile. If you

can deal with the 645 format, i'd want an H, a Contax 645 or a Mamiya 645. In that order.

 

No, the 645 is not "too small for fashion." It all depends on what you want to accomplish.

Many of the 'top' fashion shooters use 645. But, be prepared for slightly more grain, and

slightly less of the 3D thing. Figure out what you want your pictures to look like, then

figure out which is the most appropriate tool to accomplish that. Medium format is NOT a

necessity. Peter Lindbergh and Ellen von Unwerth made most of their most important

images with 35mm Nikons.

[cao_minh_duc]

Hi Derek,

 

You hit the nail just right...I have never been totally happy with controlling the DOF on my Leica. Basically had the rf patch was as big enough to cover the whole viewfinder, things would have been a lot easier to focus.

 

I had brief hand on with the Canon 1D and 24-70 zooms. No, this kind of beast just didn't work for me. Too heavy that at all times I really wanted to throw it away and free my clumsy body.

 

I'm getting very much into the Mamiya Pro TL since they are going for quite cheap today. I found a brand new set with Plain Prism Finder, 80mm lense and 120 Magazine that cost at 1450 USD. I think this price is very attractive needless to say second hand ones cost even less.

 

Thank you all again for you comments

Cheers

[derek_stanton2]

Cao,

The Mamiya 645 Pro TL is also a camera i have been interested in recently. But, i'd get it with

the 80mm 1.9 lens, not the standard 2.8. I think you can get the whole setup for less than

$1450., used, but in fantastic condition. Check KEH.com. Where do they sell them new? The

camera has been out of production for a long while.

[cao_minh_duc]

Hi,

 

Ffordes got some brand new ones in stock. I live in the UK so buying from Keh would not be feasible although it makes me think how UK prices got marked up that much :)

Cheers

[mark liddell]

I have had very bad experiences buying equipment from ffords and I would seriously recommend that you look elsewhere if buying second hand. For new gear they may be ok.

 

Like others have suggested, for studio work I would look at an slr.

[iangillett]

Dear Mark,

 

I am sorry to hear you have had some bad experiences buying from ffordes. I have always had good service from them and I think their prices are very reasonable. The only problem I had was when buying a Mamiya RZ 140 mm Macro Lens. The floating element part did not rotate all the way. They had another one in stock which they sent to me before I returned my original purchase. Then I received the original one after it had been serviced and had to decide which one to send back.

 

These days I mostly use Canon DSLRs (mainly 1Ds Mk iii and 1D Mk iii). If I were to use film for a fashion shoot then I would use my Mamiya RZ, especially if shooting in a studio on a tripod. I have a Mamiya 7 but only use it when I travel.

 

Hope this helps

 

Yours

 

Ian

[Vlad Soare]

I bought my RB67 (new) from Ffordes, and it was a very smooth transaction. Very good prices and fast shipment. Nothing to complain about. I don't know about used gear, though.

[cao_minh_duc]

Hi,

 

I am seriously considering the Mamiya 150mm f2.8 for the kind of portrait works I describe above. It is a manual focus lens only but I can't seem to find any info about this lens on the web. Please share your experience.

Thanks