Underexposed slides from my M2, handheld meter wrong or shutter overhaul needed?

[lookupinwonder]

Got my first roll of slides back, shot with my 'new' M2. Most of them were

severly underexposed. Used a Gossen Digiflash handheld meter in reflective

mode. Battery was fresh.

 

I also had my Nikon FE with me, this generally gave readings about a stop

lower than the Gossen. I elaborated this further and found out that the Gossen

readings differ quite a bit from the Nikon in almost all cases. I realize that

the metering pattern is different, but this much difference? It almost looks

like the Gossen does not give an average reading, but a highlight reading. But

even when pointing it at the ground the readings are too high.

 

I shots slides with FM and FE's regularly, and they were all well exposed. To

be honest, the slides from the M2 look so dark that it it is probaly more

difference than one stop, so the shutter of the M2 is probably off too.

 

So, what's up? Is it me being silly, or is my meter not good? Is it too much

to expect that a handheld meter would give me half decent slides?

[sattler123]

Seems like an easy thing to figure out. Use a camera with integrated meter that you trust, take both cameras, use the exposure values from the camera you trust and transfer them over to the M2. When you get those slides back and they are still under-exposed, then it is time for a CLA of the Leica.

 

Using an external light meter needs some practice - you need to understand what and where to meter - the meter will always give you an 18% gray reading, no matter where you point it at. Make sure you measure an area that looks like 18% gray, or that you adjust the meter readings accordingly for lighter or darker subjects.

[joop]

Exactly what I had with my gossen digisix. (i think it's the same meter but no flash option). In my case, the under exposure happened in bright sunlight. Inside, in dim lighting it was mostly o.k. My nikon F3 also gave a stop lower reading. I was also not very happy with the

repeatability of my measurements. Measure 3 times the same light and you get at least 2 different readings. I went back to CV meter. I lost the first one from the hot-shoe, and bought the digisix, but after a while a bought another CV meter which gives great exposed slides in any situation. (but is clumsy when using e.g. 15mm viewer.)

Cheers, Joop

[steve_levine]

If the Gossen gave you readings a stop lower, than that's your answer.I have used FM2N Nikons as light meters for years when exposing LF chromes. And they are always dead on.

[will_wright1]

Gossen meters can be repaired/recalibrated at Bogen Imaging in New Jersey

[ronald_moravec1]

If you are trying to run a mercury battery meter with the CRISS adapter, on some applications the adapter will not pass enough current to meter properly in bright light. Mine work fine in simple cameras like the Leica M5, Rollie 35, Leica Clip on meters, but not in my SL.

[Rob F.]

I also have Nikon FE2s and an F3 among my many toys. I agree that they are trustworthy as exposure references. If anything, they might be a tad on the generous side, but never more than 1/4 stop. (That might explain why I am happy shooting Velvia 50 at 50 with them, while others seem to prefer 40 or even 32.)

 

My M3 was underexposing by about 1 f-stop, so I had Sherry CLA it. That could be the case with your M2; but from your description, it sounds like the Gossen is the most likely suspect. Since the FE read about a stop wider than the Gossen, and your slides were a stop under, it sounds like if you had used the reading you took with the FE, your exposures would have been much closer.

 

Why don't you take some readings, and some slides with the M2, on a sunny day, using the sunny 16 rule. If you point the meter and the camera at a fully sunlit "average scene" with ISO 100 film, the exposure should be close to 1/125 at f/11.5. (More or less, depending on where you live.)

 

An average scene: Blue sky with white clouds behind a red brick building with a brown roof and a white mailbox and a black dog standing on a gray front walk, and a green grass lawn and an asphalt driveway--well, you get the idea. A full gradation of tones from black to white, and mostly in the middle.

[jonathan_reynolds]

My Gossen Digisix also needs calibrating to make it read the same as my Leica M6 and Nikon FE (which both read the same). You do this when inserting the battery (see your instruction book). Meter off an evenly lit wall or similar.

<P>

Annoyingly, it takes several tries to find out what adjustment will bring the meter to exactly the same reading as a trusted meter (e.g. your Nikon FE), so when you've got there WRITE IT DOWN (I scratched it on the meter) because you'll need it next time you change the meter battery.

<P>

If successive readings off the same surface (and from exactly the same place and angle) are variable, consider that the meter may be at fault. These are mass-produced items, and some lemons evidently do slip through the quality control. Gossen either repaired or replaced mine (not sure which) under warranty (and without comment or apology, which says a lot about a company). See <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008ybb" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008VKX" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008HwH" target="_blank">here</a>.

<P>

The example I ended up with has actually proved reliable, and especially handy to have as an incident meter. Following a tip from another forum member I cemented raised flanges (cut from film can lids) around the function button to prevent it being pushed accidentally and discharging the battery prematurely - but this may not be necessary in the Digiflash? I still curse about the small numbers on the dial, and promise myself that I'll get a Sekonic 208 when I lose this one.

[lookupinwonder]

Hmm, bought the Gossen because Karen Nakamura's site had a half decent review of the Digisix (same as Digiflash, but without flash measurement capability). But there are a LOT of negative reports here. So mine is poorly calibrated and inconsistent.

 

I bought it about two years ago, and used it halfheartedly in my makeshift studio, but looking at histograms and the LCD of my dSLR worked just as well, so the meter was forgotten.

 

Now I have an M2, a handheld meter is needed if I want to shoot slides... (I can guestimate well enough for B/W in most cases) but I think I should give up on the digiflash and buy something useful. The VCII looks about right.

[wayne_crider4]

As noted above the test is sunny sixteen and 1/Iso. For underexposure being the lens or shutters fault your speeds would have to go up. I suspect a bad meter. Also remember that some meters become non linear. It will be good in certain light and off in other lighting brightness. I'm dealing with a Gossen right now that I shake my head at knowing it's got to be wrong. So I compare it to my N80 Nikon (great meter) and sure enough it's a different reading. Thing is I can aim the Nikon better for a reading then the Gossen which probably has a wider angle of measurement. Hold a handheld a little off one way or another and it changes. I try and use an incident reading when possible or if the shot is important shoot two slightly different.

[furcafe]

As I wrote in my response on your Rangefinder forum thread (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=57394), the coverage of the meter is an important factor. In reflective mode, the Digisix's angle of coverage is only 25 degrees, close to a 90mm lens (on 35mm format). Before blaming the meter, try using it in incident mode & check that against your FE.

 

FWIW, the VCII you're thinking about getting as a replacement has the same coverage as the Digisix, though it might be easier to aim mounted on the camera.

[lookupinwonder]

The 90mm coverage is known to me. Even when deliberately poiting the gossen at the ground, to avoid sky readings, it is off. To be continued.

[lookupinwonder]

I usually don't lay blame without some foundation to my claims.

 

Anyway, got some negs back, shot with my Canonet. Because a lot of them were shot indoors under very difficult light, I used the Gossen there too, mostly in incident mode this time. Again the tendency was to underexpose signifcantly. I have yet to try the 'TV-screen' trick with my Leica.

[jtk]

The Digisix is best used with its dome IMO. The dome emulates a caucasian face (more or less). Open up an additional half stop or stop.

 

If you use it without the dome, you should read the back of some convenient caucasian's hand and open up an additional half stop or stop (white guys are whiter than 18%).

 

The SLR's meter reads 18%. Point it at something 18% or use the white-guy concept I just explained.

 

I use a Digisix, a Minolta IV flash meter, and a pair of Canon F1...they're all within a half stop of each other.

 

The Canonet vs Gossen issue might have to do with the small Gossen dome, whose orientation is important (pretend it's a face, don't imagine it's reading anything else), vs the big metering area of the Canonet, whose orientation is easier but ultimately less accurate.

 

These problems sound like too-casual meter use. Before you pay somebody to fiddle with it, review your methods.

[mohir_ali]

AFAIK, when the camera/shutter is in need of a CLA, ALL speeds run slower not just the slower speeds (?). I've never heard of a shutter running 'faster' than the stamped speed. So, it's probably a combination of your meter and your metering technique.