A bride who HATES her photos... Advice needed

[dawn_kelly]

Jim,

CHEERS buddy! You rock. Thank you.

Honestly, there has been a few snipes. But whatever.

 

I'm working on her pics and I've cleared my head. Thanks!

[paul_mckinley2]

If she would have been happy would those photographs have been the final product , or would there have been further editing for the ones she chose to print. If there rough images was she aware of that. i would also like to thank you for this thread for it has tought me a few things and made me rethink some possible situations. From a bias standpoint i didn't see any snipping towards you , only people trying to help you when they could easily just hit the back key and go on to another thread.

[andre blais]

I mean no offense by this but I think you should edit down your proofs a bit more, by edit I don't mean in post, more like just leave images on the cutting room floor, like the barren tree branches for example.

[ObiWon]

Dawn, I am just glad that my comments helped you, just remember, nobody died!

 

Steve and others, my comments on digital were totally tongue in cheek. Yes I know the digital roller-coaster is going to knock me for six one day, but I enjoy being a Luddite. Film photography is a respite for me from the other part of my work in advanced real time computing applications. The next big thing in digital photography will be AI, now then Uncle Bob will be able to do a professional job, so start running for the hills now ROFLMHO!

 

As to that bad wedding, it was over twenty years ago now, but I still need trauma counselling :-)

[edwardolive]

the photos look like perfectly normal wedding photos to me.

 

she should have checked your work before to see if she likes your personal style

 

i always stress to brides here in spain before that they have to check what i do on my www first and tell me they like it cos better lose them before them to have problems after because they don't like my style

 

you did all this they cannot complain

 

ps

 

"dreary venue, and from the looks of it, a party that had the collective personality of a pot of boiled haddock"

 

hehe

[sprouty]

<I>"...the photos look like perfectly normal wedding photos to me.</I>

<P>

Yup, I would agree, and if I spent $1,200 I might be a bit disapointed too. This is not intended as a snipe, but you did ask for opinions.

<P>

I think the cropping and toning recommendations Marc made are spot on. And not that it matters, but I think it speaks volumes about your character that you are trying to help her rather than walking away.

[warren_sheng]

This has been a fascinating forum. I'm mostly an amateur wedding film photographer but would like to add one non-photographic comment. After this matter has blown over, consider this. It's only photography, not the marriage. The photos of my own wedding, taken by friends, were disappointing (I wish I had photographed my own wedding!) Later on, I decided that being married was far more important than whether 200 shots taken of our first 2 hours of marriage were great or just average. Over 21 years have now elapsed and the first 2 hours were not that critical.

Conclusion: I hope the bride gets over this upset and concentrates on her marriage.

P.S. Did the bridegroom ever complain?

[dawn_kelly]

I've heard nothing from the groom, and when I asked her what he thought she was ambiguous. However, while I've been working on the photos cropping and editing, I noticed that the groom looks misserable in the photos. Did anyone else see this? A few people on this thread have said I didn't capture them "admiring" each other. I can't really recall that ever happening. They weren't really a smily or happy couple much at the wedding except when the uncle was telling funny stories. But in the portraits and durring the ceremony he looks really unhappy. I wonder if this is factoring into why she doesn't like her images.

[dawn_kelly]

PS. the $1200 includes all her prints, all negatives and a CD of all images. I've done a pretty good market research in this area and I'm about $500 - $1000 below any one else's price. Just info.

[f72]

i am not pro but i know a good image when i see one.i looked to about 100shot and i can understand why she is upset her face is no where to be found in your shots and there is very little close ups. most of your images (the first 100 i looked at)are too far and there is so many of the same shot .just my honest opinion.

[cindyp]

I'm with everyone else as far as the location being horrible. I think that it's her own fault for not looking at your work. Every photographer has a style. If your style didn't fit her expectations, then she shouldn't have gone with you. Sorry, but based on what you posted about your convo, she sounds a little...um...extra high maintenance, but lazy.

[tom leoni]

Faleh ~

 

I looked at the same 100 photos, and the bride's face appears a great number of times--12, 13, 26, 27, 37, etc., etc. As for closeups, they can be obtained with cropping, which Dawn has been busy doing for 2 days.

 

Dawn, yes, I noticed the lack of smile/expression in the groom too. He was my main inspiration for the analogy I used in my previous post. Keep your chin up, you're doing fine.

 

Tom

[dawn_kelly]

Tom's the best.

[picturesque]

Cropping in on the bride's face on an image that wasn't intended to be a close-up or at least, half length, in the first place is not going to replace an image shot close-up to begin with. Most close-ups of people (especially faces) are shot with telephotos for undistorted perspective. That, and shallow DOF will not be there on the cropped image, not to mention loss of quality from the cropping.

 

I understand what Faleh is talking about. As I mentioned earlier, there was not much of an effort to flatter the bride. By that I mean deliberately using the focal lengths, DOF, lighting and posing (or waiting for good ops) that make her look really good--the beauty shots of the bride that most photographers try to shoot sometime during the wedding. If no good ops present themselves, then you make the ops. Same for the "admiring" shots John talks about. I would say even a heavily PJ style photographer will try very hard to get those kind of shots, and even make the ops, if none presented themselves. Sure, the time was tight, the groom non responsive and the venue (the church part--reception venue seems nice) wasn't thrilling, but you can still make those shots happen. Cut out or blur out the backgrounds with teles. Even blue sky and backlit sun can be used to good effect. Do just a little directing and spend 10 minutes getting those shots. Do a few traditional shots with the bride and groom and then have the groom act as window dressing for the smiling bride--he wouldn't even have to look at the camera or smile. Like Mary suggested, zoom in and out.

 

The thing, though, is Dawn's other weddings don't show much of that kind of shot, so... Anyway, Dawn did ask for opinions, but in my opinion, our opinions don't matter much. The bride's feelings are what they are and I doubt other opinions are going to make her change her mind. The real issue is addressing her feelings and possibly changing them from negative to positive by working with the images that exist.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

I can't uderstand people blaming the venue for being dreary, looked rather nice to me.....also don't understand blaming the groom for his expressions. The lighting is problematic and that is the photographer's responsibility. Many of the compositions have merging problems and could have been improved with better capture angles. While I've seen worse, I don't believe that these images measure up to pro standards. While the B/G opinions are important, when I was starting out 15 years (and 500 weddings) ago, I was much more concerned with the opinion of the studio owner and/or the director of photography. But that's all just my opinion...CYMMV.

[dawn_kelly]

I think at this point everything that's needed to be said has been said. Thank you everyone for your opinions. I'm commencing beating myself up and realizing I'm not up to pro standards as I work on her photos. Can the comments stop now?

[fotografz]

Dawn, no pain, no gain.

 

(Contrary to popular belief, that saying wasn't invented by exercise mavens of the 20th century, or by Nike. It was first penned in 1650 by Robert Herrick in "Hesperides) ... and was popularized by none other than Ben Franklin in his 1758 "Poor Richard" : -)

[david_schilling___chicago_]

No need to beat yourself.....this can become a positive step toward becoming a solid pro wedding photographer, if you take some of the comments above to heart, you'll improve your coverage practices and do better work in the future.

 

Best practices for supervision generally means that you recognize good work and praise publicly (or at least in the presence of peers) and critique privately. Unfortunately, the nature of an internet forum is such that critiques need to be done in front of peers. BTW, if you'd like some more specific feedback/mentoring via email or the phone just shoot me an email. Good luck/best wishes.

[mick_cookson]

Dawn,

 

 

I'd forget all about it. You've done a good job here. Maybe not your best but good enough in my opinion. She's probably changed her husband by now anyway because she won't be happy with him either....