Super Ikonta C -- Differences in Shutter, Lens

[tom leoni]

I have tried to research this topic, but had not too much luck--I hope someone

here can help me.

 

Within the Super Ikonta C lineup, what is the difference between a) the Klio

and Synchro-Compur shutters and b) the Triotar and Tessar lens? I have a sense

that pre-war/post-war manufacture (respectively) may be one of the factors.

However, I was trying to get some more technical specifications, especially

regarding the shutter (e.g. what is the shutter speed range in the two

models?).

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

Tom

[michaelging]

I have one that was made around 1935 that has a broken shutter blade on it. I have been looking for a blade for about 3 yrs without any luck.I am not sure which shutter it's in but its the Tessar lens. Its a beautiful camera,with a great lens, but I can't use it till I find the shutter blade. I am not where the camera is now so I can't help you with your specific question.

[colin carron]

Tom, the Klio shutter is the Zeiss-Ikon badged version of the Prontor-S made by Gauthier and the Synchro-Compur is a fairly similar shutter made by Deckel. They both have a good range of speeds and flash synch though I think the Prontor (klio) is a 9-speed 1-200 and B while the Synchro-Compur is a 9-speed 1-400 and T,B. Both have good reputations thought the Compur is usually thought of as better both for its higher top speed and also for large format lenses where the T setting is important.

 

There are also lower quality shutters such as the Derval available but these are more restricting due to the lower speed range.

 

The Zeiss Triotar is as the name suggests a triplet derived from the Cooke triplet design. The Novar is also a Triplet. The Tessar is a 4 element design so is better corrected though in practice it may be difficult to spot the difference between the three element Novar or Triotar and four element Tessar designs. However the Tessar will always command a higher price and in fairness is the better corrected lens with an excellent reputation for sharpness.

 

The difference in lens will make a difference to the end product while the difference between the shutters is less important if they are both working correctly as the lower top speed is not such a problem unless your photography particularly requires it.

[colin carron]

Pre-war and Post-War

 

Pre war lenses are almost always uncoated while post war lenses are almost always coated. This makes an appreciable difference to contrast and flare resistance so the postwar lens will perform better than the pre war version.

 

As far as shutters go the prontor-S dates from 1948. Iam not sure whether you can get a prewar Klio shutter but if you can it will not be the Prontor-S. The Synchro-Compur starts at 1951 so before that you will probably see the Compur Rapid (1-400). This does not have flash synch. Before that comes the 1928 Compur (1-300) and before that the dial-set 1912 compur (1-200)

 

Summarising the postwar cameras have a number of sunificnt advantages over the prewar omes in terms of lens coatings (1945) and flash synched shutters (early 1950's). They make appreciably better user cameras for that reason.

[tom leoni]

Thank you so much, Colin, for the kind and informative answer. I am only now entering the world of Zeiss folding cameras, and I want to make sure I have enough information to make informed decisions on the important things.

 

Tom

[mskovacs]

I don't think I've ever seen a Super Ikonta with a Klio shutter or triplet lens. They always seem to have the high end Tessar lens and Compur shutters.

 

Are you talking about "vanilla" Ikonta's as well?

[tom leoni]

Hi, Mike ~

 

I'm talking about a Super Ikonta. You can see a "C" on ritzcam.com under "Zeiss Folding Roll Film Cameras," third from last as of this posting. Also, you can see the mention of a Klio shutter in conjunction with a Super Ikonta C in this link:

 

http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/ikonta.htm

 

The manual mentions a Klio shutter but it's vague as to its exact nature.

 

Tom

[colin carron]

My McKeown has most post war Super Ikomtas as mostly 'coated Tessar' or 'Opton Tessar' in Synchro Compur, some Novars and 'Triotar (rare) in Klio'. I imagine it is rare because most people who could affurd a Super Ikonta could also afford the Tessar.

[Robert_Lai]

This information comes from D.B. Tubbs in his book Zeiss Ikon Cameras 1926-39, Hove Books, West Sussex UK (2001).<p>

In 1929, Zeiss standardized the shutters used in its cameras to the Derval, Sonto, Klio, and the Compur. The first three are "everset" types, which mean that the shutter does not need to be cocked prior to each exposure.

<p>The Klio gave the following speeds, regulated by means of a geared escapement: 1, 1/2, 1/5, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100 second, as well as B and T. Speeds were adjusted by a dial at the 12:00 position on the shutter body, and the shutter release also cocked the shutter when depressed.

<p>The Compur shutter was the highest grade of shutter. It required cocking of a shutter spring prior to exposure, except for B and T, which were everset. The earlier dial set Compurs gave way to the rim set Compurs in 1930. In 1934, the Super Ikonta C was introduced as the 530/2 model, with coupled rangefinder. Earlier to this are the (non-super) Ikonta C which give the same frame size, but do not have a rangefinder. Super Ikonta C having the Compur shutter have it in the "0" size.<p>

The British Zeiss price list of 1936 lists the most inexpensive Super Ikonta C as having a 105mm f/4.5 Triotar lens with Klio shutter for 14 Pounds sterling + 7s 6d.<p>

At the same time, you could obtain the Compur shutter with a f/4.5 Tessar for 19 Pounds even, or f/3.8 Tessar for 22 Pounds, 10 shillings. These first generation Super Ikonta C 530/2 all required that you activate the shutter release adjacent to the lens.<p>In June 1936, the Super Ikonta C-II was released, which incorporated a body shutter release with double exposure prevention. The model number is 531/2. This super-deluxe model cost an incredible 27 pounds sterling, which was a whopping amount of money during the great depression. It so happens that I just purchased one of these lovely little 531/2, so I can tell you that the Compur Rapid offers speeds of B, 1, 1/2, 1/5, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200, 1/400 as well as a self-timer option on all speeds except the fastest.<p>The f/3.8 Tessar is relatively rare, as it was only in production from 1936 to 1938. Thereafter, you saw the f/3.5 Tessar.<p>In 1939, Hitler invaded Poland, and the whole world went into hell....

[tom leoni]

Thank you, Robert, that was a really informative post.

 

I ended up buying that Super Ikonta C with the Triotar/Klio combination--I figured that $275 wasn't too much of a gamble, especially for a recently-serviced camera in great working condition.

 

I will play around with the format, which I've been wanting to do for some time.

 

Tom

[paul_poropat]

Hello Tom

I use both Zeiss and Voigtlander 6X9 folders. Yes...there is absolute magic when looking at a 6x9 chrome.

Enjoy your Super C.

Paul

[tom leoni]

Sure will, Paul, and I will post a few pics as soon as I get the camera and take it for a spin!

 

Tom