how usefull/a-must is "E" in SL66E?

[krists_krigers]

hello everyone,

 

this is my first post here.

 

background: i have never shot any roll of film ever, but i do have some experience with Canon EOS digital

cameras (currently is use 1D Mark III, like it very much), so i have some understanding about manual

exposure and focusing. photograpy is just my hoby, no money comes from it, only out.

 

some time ago i got this idea that i would need to try film. i know, there are tons of good 35mm SLR

cameras out there, any of which would be more like my current setup, but somehow i got this idea about

medium format, and i am willing to spend some money for it. not insane amounts but some - around

$1000.

 

am i making any sense so far?

 

so i looked around the internets and got the impression that Rollei's SL66(E?) would be exactly what i

need (am i wrong?). but there are some questions i would like to be answered:

 

1) is it a good idea to by SL66 on ebay? are there many bad ones going around?

2) it occured to me, that SL66E are more less common, more pricey (+30%) than purely mechanical SL66 -

and as i understood, the main difference between those two is internal TTL metering. so how much of a

hindrance is external light meter (like Sekonic L-208)?

 

i intend to shoot B&W, available light.

 

any advices?

[shambrick007]

"that Rollei's SL66(E?) would be exactly what i need (am i wrong?)" - How can we answer that w/out knowing what you plan to shoot and what features you're looking for? My first reaction would be that there are less costly alternatives.

[krists_krigers]

my apologies, forgot to mention that i intend to shoot portraits/people in general, and some

landscapes.

 

could you, please, give any examples on "less costly alternatives"?

[dan_kreithen]

What do you mean by available light? Do you intend to handhold? The SL66 is a bit of a beast to handhold unless you have the option handgrip, and even then it's not a lot of fun. Combined with expensive repairs and not too many people who will touch it make it (probably) a less-than-ideal choice. Where it excels is macro work (it has a built-in-bellows and you can reverse mount the lens without adapters). Alternative suggestions would be a Hasselblad with the equivalent Zeiss lenses for an SLR, and a Rolleiflex for a TLR (which is really good for available light but confines you to a single lens).

[mskovacs]

I think you need to break away from the autofocus, in camera metering approach if you want to get serious about medium format. An unmetered camera with a good hand held incident and/or 1 degree spot meter is generally more useful than spending large amounts of money on automatic functions in MF cameras. (IMO)

 

I shoot an SL66 (non metered) regularly and it is a great system for my style of work (nature photography, macros) where it usually lives on a tripod. It is a beast to manage handheld, the lenses are not fast enough, and the mirror slap is too harsh for "available darkness" style photography. Digital is the better tool for that IMO.

[vick_ko]

Ummm, if you are jumping into medium format shooting for the first time, I would suggest that landing on the SL66 might not be the best option.

 

For handheld MF SLR, I'd go with Hasselblad. Much better ergonomically, comparable optical performance, much more plentiful to find lenses and accessories and more reliable than the Rolleiflex.

 

Go to www.keh.com to shop.

 

Having a meter in the camera certainly is a convenience, and faster.

 

Maybe that will be the only drawback from the Hasselblad - going metered on a Hasselblad means much more money (203FE, a wonderful camera).

 

...Vick

[john_stockdale2]

I'm an enthusiastic SL66 user. I have an unmetered SL66 but I always wanted one with a meter, so I bought an SL66SE. It is a camera that I'm very fond of using, but when I'm using it on a tripod (two-thirds of the time), a hand held meter is actually more convenient, especially if you want to spot-meter.

 

If you're used to a digital SLR, I fear that the SL66 might be a bit too great a shock to your system. Hand held it's quite a stable camera, but ergonomically it's awkward (having three hands would be a help). I will use mine till I'm finished with photography, but I'd hesitate to recommend it for you without your trying one before buying.

[antonio_garcia_russell]

Krists, go for it mate. Either a regular SL66 or an SL66E would be an excellent first medium

format camera. A 500 series Hasselblad is also a very good choice. The important thing to

bear in mind though is that condition is more important than features when buying second

hand. Get the newest/best condition camera you can get. The SL66s are great for all types

of photography, I miss the ability to close focus since I sold mine.

[krists_krigers]

thanks for answers and comments, all of you.

 

as i understood, the main concern is that SL66 is a bit too heavy and awkward for

handheld use.

 

the next best thing seams to be Hasselblad 500C/M, and looks like it's more available and

prices seem to be a bit lower too. (thanks for www.keh.com, Vick)

 

as i understand, the main difference between those two, besides weight, is shutter speed

- SL66's focal has max 1/1000 is 500C/M's leaf has max 1/500. i checked EXIF's of my

digital pictures, shutter speeds higher (faster) than 1/500 are quite rare, but it could be

becouse of me trying to use ISO as low as possible.

 

i also found some comments about SL66's shutter induced shake (== faster shutter

speed). is that really an issue?

 

as for "trying out before buying" - unfortunately, that is not an option for me as i do not

know anyone that would use any MF (or film) camera.

 

now it looks like Hasselblad 500C/M will be more suited to me.

 

thanks for your input again, everyone.

[john_stockdale2]

"...also found some comments about SL66's shutter induced shake (== faster shutter speed). is that really an issue?"

 

I use mine hand held sometimes and it doesn't seem to be a problem. The mirror does make a "ker-lunk", a sound I have learned to love, but I doubt that it has a serious effect on sharpness. The inertia of the camera helps, of course. I have read that most of the sound comes from the mirror going down, so it's after the exposure. (Of course a tripod makes a difference). I wouldn't dream of hand holding to take landscape, because detail is why i use 6x6, but for portraiture it's acceptable.

 

If you want to use flash to assist in lighting a portrait, the Hasselblad will offer more flexibility as far as shutter speeds are concerned. The SL66 has max flash sync of 1/30.

 

If you want a 6x6 that you can hand hold at long shutter speeds, I think the Mamiya 6 would be the answer. But then, it doesn't do a lot of what the 6x6 SLRs do, of course.

[john_stockdale2]

"...also found some comments about SL66's shutter induced shake (== faster shutter speed). is that really an issue?"

 

I use mine hand held sometimes and it doesn't seem to be a problem. The mirror does make a "ker-lunk", a sound I have learned to love, but I doubt that it has a serious effect on sharpness. The inertia of the camera helps, of course. I have read that most of the sound comes from the mirror going down, so it's after the exposure. (Of course a tripod makes a difference). I wouldn't dream of hand holding to take landscape, because detail is why i use 6x6, but for portraiture it's acceptable.

 

If you want to use flash to assist in lighting a portrait, the Hasselblad will offer more flexibility as far as shutter speeds are concerned. The SL66 has max flash sync of 1/30.

 

If you want a 6x6 that you can hand hold at long shutter speeds, I think the Mamiya 6 would be the answer. But then, it doesn't do a lot of what the 6x6 SLRs do, of course.

[jean-louis llech]

I have nothing to sell, and my opinion is only a user's one.<br>

<i>"SL66 is a bit too heavy and awkward for handheld use"</i> I have sometimes to read such absurd and counterproductive pretences.<br>

There is no fundamental difference between using a SL66 (E or SE) or a Hasselblad 501 or 503 handheld.<br>

<i>"The SL66 is a bit of a beast to handhold"</i>. Another unfair assertion. <br>

First, a SL66 SE weights 1.9 kg with a folding viewing hood, a 120 magazine and a f/2.8 80mm Planar. A 501/CM or 503 CW weights 1.5 kg in the same configuration with an A12 back and a 80mm Planar.<br>

But don't forget that all 500 series Hasselblads need a metering prism to be used as you would use a SL66-E or SE, with TTL metering. And a PME90 prism with built-in exposure meter weights 580 gr.<br>

Bringing forward such an argument is totally stupid, as it is well known that a heavier camera allows slower shutter speeds (My Linhof Master Technika and its 4kg weight allows much slower speeds than a lighter MF or 135 camera).<br>

Holding a SL66 E or SE camera in the hands is very easy and convenient. The mirror return is one of the best dampened of all medium format cameras. The position of all controls, buttons and levers is also well conceived, and they fall easily under the fingertips. <br>

Last, don't forget that an embedded metering system allows to use the camera without a heavy metering prism. And you can use a SL66-SE and its 6 silicon cells (integral+spot+TTL flash) with a folding viewing hood. Try to do it with a Blad.<br>

And when you need rapidity for street shots, for example, the response time of the metering system in a camera is much more effective than even an independent hand meter.<br>

Concerning the reliability of the SL66 E and SE, I am fed-up with this legend. It's as stupid as the weight. The SL66-E and SE are really masterpieces, and are very reliable MF cameras.<br>

If you search on the web or on this website with the keywords "jam" or "jammed", the word which comes immediately in the search results is Hasselblad, not Rollei. Try it by yourself, it's a totally inexpensive experiment ;>)).<br>

[jean-louis llech]

<i>"The SL66 has max flash sync of 1/30."</i> Two lenses (Distagon 4/80mm and Sonnar 4/150) with leaf shutter can be used at any speed up to 1/500s.<br>