Getting into Hasselblad - getting the gear right

[svein_n1]

I bought a 500C/M set a year back which turned out to be crap. Pretty much the

only thing that worked was the lens cap. PayPal did help me get a refund though,

so it all turned out fine in the end.

 

Two months ago I had the chance to play around with a 500C/M again, and this

time it was all good. I loved it. I do own a Leica M6 and a Canon 40D with

assorted lenses, so there really isn't any "rational" reason to spend money on

yet another system, but I have the chance to get this out of my system, so I

will get a basic starter set. And this is of course where I need your help!

 

OK, camera first. The 500C/M seemed to work fine with me. Is there any reason

for going with a more modern camera? The one I used had the Acute-Matte "D"

screen installed, and I will make sure that I get that one, really bright!

 

Lens. I'm thinking 80mm f/2.8 here, since I'm really fond of the 50mm view on my

Leica. But CT*, CF, CB? I've read that the old stuff © is hard to get

repaired, so that would be an issue for me.

 

Film back, WLF: As long as it works... A12, ordinary WLF is what I'm thinking.

 

However, I've been checking out eBay, and it seems that I could get started for

as little as $8-900. But... I don't want another crap camera, costing me a

fortune in taxes, and having to get it fixed in a year or two. I want a fully

serviced, ready-to-go setup. I know this is gonna cost more, but I see that

David Odess would be able to set me up for about $1300-1400, would that be a

good place to start? KEH would be cheaper, but then I wouldn't know the service

history.

 

I guess I'm asking for opinions here: Am I throwing cash away going this route?

If you were to get a starter set, how would you go about it?

[ronald_moravec1]

Buy something from David.

 

Two kinds of items end up on e-bay. Used up pro stuff or amateur stuff that has sat

around, looks good, but needs service.

 

I think David has stated C shutters can be repaired with the new springs. Check with

him.

 

WLF are ok for static stuff. The reversed l/r makes tracking moving things backward.

The Russian finders work fine.

 

The new lenses are better, so an 80 CB is what I would get. CB have new style springs.

CFi lenses have new springs. CF do not.

[Ed_Ingold]

The viewfinder of a 500c/m will cut off at the top with a lens longer than 120mm. This has no effect on the image, but is annoying in practice. Cameras with the Gliding Mirror System have a larger mirror which does not exhibit this effect. These include all 200 cameras, the 501CM and 503CW.

 

Older cameras are frequently in need of a CLA, including the bodies, backs and lenses. A well-tuned 500cm is incredibly smooth and precise feeling. Trouble areas include operation of the auxillary shutter (barn doors) and frame spacing in the back. In lenses, focusing becomes very stiff, particularly in C lenses and changing shutter speeds. The shutter speed dial should be uniformly smooth throughout the range.

[a_petkov]

Get the 80mm CF lens, it is better than the CB. This is pretty much the only lens you would ever need for 90% of your shots.

 

Good luck.

[keithostertag]

Check the photo.net archives for discussions on focusing with the Hasselblad. There's lot of interesting and useful discussions concerning the differences between various focusing screens, prisms, diopters, etc. One of the disadvantages of the older 500C (and I believe the 500CM) is that the screen is not user changeable, and the pop-up magnifier in the WLF is not changeable for diopters if you need to do that in the future. Also, don't forget that the film back, if used, may need to be CLA'd. I agree that the 80mm lens is excellent- get a lens shade for it. And consider whether you will want a strap for carrying the camera.

[william_markey]

I have a 500CM and love it! I would highly recommend getting lenses that are newer--CF or newer. I have a 50mm and 250mm of the old C style (the silver ones) and hate the way they focus--stiff (no, they're fine, not broken--they're just made that way) and the focusing ring is thin. The new lens design is much nicer to work with (like my 80mm CF lens).

 

Speaking of my 250mm lens, the vignetting in the viewfinder at this focal length is minimal and not bothersome at all to me--so don't let that override your choice. Sure a 501CM or CW may not have vignetting, but really it's not a big deal at all on the 500CM.

 

I would also recommend a prism of some sort--I can't stand the waist level finder way of doing things. But that's just my personal opinion. A ton of Hassey owners love to use the WL finders.

 

I HIGHLY recommend David Odess--you can't go wrong with the Master of Hasselblad! He did a great job on a repair and CLA for my 500CM body for a reasonable price.

 

Just a word of warning though--Hasselblads have some quirks and you REALLY need to read up on how to operate them before you jam up your camera. If you do things in the right sequence, they operate like a dream!

 

Good luck and let us know what you end up purchasing!

[BrianS1664879711]

"Older cameras are frequently in need of a CLA, including the bodies, backs and lenses."

 

Everyone buying used camera equipment, especially on eBay, should repeat this phrase often so it is not forgotten!

[ken_hagler]

I bought a Hasselblad a while ago from David Odess, and it was DOA. I'd already been a little wary of the infamous flakiness of Hasselblads (I was getting it to supplement a Rolleiflex), and getting one that didn't work out of the box from such a highly-regarded technician convinced me to take him up on his money-back guarantee.

 

I still want to buy a 6x6 SLR at some point to supplement the Rolleiflex, but next time I'll try a Bronica.

[hasselblad technician]

Ken purchased a 500 C/M camera body, 80mm lens and 2 A-12 film backs from me last June. When he received the camera, it was not working. Naturally, this surprised me, as I had cleaned, lubricated and adjusted all of the pieces and checked them out completely before I shipped them out to him. When I received the camera from him, I discovered the problem. There is a release lever on the rear plate of the lens that is held in place with a small screw. The problem was simply that the screw had loosened up from vibrations during shipping, causing the release lever to be out of position. This is something that I haven't seen happen in my 32 years of servicing the Hasselblad system.

 

I can appreciate Ken's disappointment when he received a camera that wasn't working, but I would hate to see him abandon his desire for a Hasselblad because of this rare incident.

[q.g._de_bakker]

Ken,<br><br>That "infamous flakiness" is a myth that only exists in the (collective) minds of (groups of) people who haven't actually used Hasselblads, and like to badmouth them because they forsee that (for whatever reason) they never will. Hasselblad cameras are indeed the pinnacle of reliability.<br>So - i'm curious - where exactly did you hear that? ;-)<br><br>I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with one. But do not let that deter you: if you still want a 6x6 SLR, a Hasselblad will do you great service. Get one now, used even, and it will still be working when you pass it on to your grandchildren.

[greg jansen]

Two words. 60mm and 120mm. With those two excellent lenses you can cover just about everything. If you like Leica you'll love the Hasselblad.

[bill_palmer2]

>One of the disadvantages of the older 500C (and I believe the 500CM) is that the screen

is not user changeable, and the pop-up magnifier in the WLF is not changeable for

diopters if you need to do that in the future.

 

The focusing screen on the 500C/M IS user-changeable; that's the primary reason for the

/M in the name. Also, the modern WLF has user-changeable diopters for the magnifier.

If the magnifier is on a stalk instead of a flat panel, you have an older WLF (even if it is a

newer camera, buyer beware!) and the magnifier cannot be interchanged. The WLF that

has a hinge running down the middle of the side panel from top to bottom is the one you

want if you'll need to change the magnifier. It came out in 1984, but given the ease of

switching viewfinders, the date won't help you much unless you know it is original to the

camera in question.

 

My reading of Nordin's text about the 500C/M is that the early 500C/M bodies from 1971

and part of 1972 may say 500C on the side but do have the interchangeable screen. You

can figure out the year of manufacture by looking at the camera's serial number on the

back and applying the following cipher:

 

VHPICTURES

1234567890

 

or using the converter on the http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu website.

[antonio_garcia_russell]

I would echo the recomendation to always get a second hand camera serviced. Hasselblads

can have a tendency to fail, particularly the shutter releasing on its own/locking up, hence

the proliferation of unlocking keys for sale on eBay, but from what I am told (by a very

respected Hasselblad repair tech.) this is due to poor setup at the factory or bits working

their way loose rather than an inherent design flaw. Certainly I have had no complaints with

my 500CM since I had it serviced. They really are excellent reliable cameras.

[q.g._de_bakker]

"Hasselblads can have a tendency to fail" and "hence the proliferation of unlocking keys" are linked bits of nonsense. The "hence" is misplaced. It's a reversal, marketing ploy. Tripe, to con people into spending money on something they do not need.<br><br>Hasselblads do not have a tendency to fail. And knowing that, noone in his or right mind would spend a dime on a useless tool. No market.<br>So the false rumour is spread that they do. And suddenly people both start repeating the nonsense, and start believing there is a need for such a tool too.<br><br>Yes, it is possible for a Hasselblad to jam. Very occassionaly.<br>And when it does, it's always due to the user: either not knowing that he or she bought a camera or lens that has been pummeled to death (in which case you do not need an unjamming tool, but a refund, or failing that, a good repairshop, or even a new camera or lens), or believing that a little brute force will make things work the way the manual says they don't.<br>And it are those users that are willing victims for the people selling these nonsensical tools, since it it so much more comforting to believe that the camera is at fault than they themselves. So to them, such a silly tool, and the silly "have a tendency to fail" story makes sense.<br><br>But it doesn't. So let's stop spreading this nonsense.<br><br>(And as a by the way: if you really, really do believe you need a tool anyway, get a cheap small screwdriver and a small coin. They will do the job the tool is supposed to do just as well. I'm sure there is noone among us here who doesn't already own those.<br>So even when we allow ourselves to be too gullible, let's at least 'kill' the market for the money grabbers selling these far too expensive, nonsensical tools.

[bill_palmer2]

Speaking of jamming, the only time I've had a problem in the 16 or 17 years I've had the

pleasure of using Hasselblad gear is when I don't bother to put the dark slide back in the

magazine before changing lenses, extension tubes, etc. Seems to be cheap insurance

against a jam. You can bump the shutter release as you fumble about and the magazine

interlock keeps it from triggering. I suppose it is possible that a poorly maintained body or

magazine would defeat this tactic.

[dave_wilson1]

I like the newer ones 501 and 503 cw with the floating mirrors, 50, 80, 100 and 180 lenses. The CB is a nice 6 element lens and prints nicely, the traditional 7 element CF is a different design and prints a little zippier when stopped down to f8-11. However, I like the CB better wide open, it has a nice breathy look to it. Fact, they do occasionaly jam. The main cause is a partial depression of the shutter release, enough to trip the lens but not the body. Then you need a proper screwdriver to reset the lens and you're good to go. I was a pretty heavy user and this happened to me a few times. The backs also occasionaly fail, interestingly the two backs that failed were under warranty and it was a little part thet failed, but it was quickly repaired at HB. Overall, extremely high quality stuff if in good maintenance, go for it.

[mohir_ali]

"Buy something from David."

 

Yes, I would like to keep knoledgeable and helpful people in business as well. You pay more in the beginning, but it often turns out less in the long run.

 

"I would also recommend a prism of some sort--I can't stand the waist level finder way of doing things."

 

The WLF, for me, was a pain, not the viewing, but the reversed image...upside down images (4X5) freak me as well.

[andy_piper2]

I just joined the Hassy club, but with some prior experience over the years in studios and

such. Got good tips here at Photo.net last week on picking a body, with one omission (see

below re: Palpas).

 

A couple of notes from my own shopping experience:

 

---"Is there any reason for going with a more modern camera?"

 

Flash metering - if it matters. Acute-Matte screen, which you seem to be getting anyway.

Gliding mirror for longer lenses.

 

One DOWNSIDE to the newer bodies, that I did not know about, is that the PALPAS anti-

reflection coating added in post-500CM cameras often develops rather startling cracks.

The inside of the camera "box" and the flap doors on the back can look like a dried mud-

flat!

 

I got a 503CX body, discovered it had cracks, decided they were not critical for use but

could well have an effect on resale (but then that's likely why I got it cheapish) - so I'm

sticking with it. Had I known ahead of time, I MIGHT have considered going with an older

500CM and adding the Acute-Matte screen myself.

 

---"I'm thinking 80mm f/2.8 here"

 

The 100 f/3.5 is actually a bit better at big apertures (and why else buy an f/2.8 lens?) But,

hey, the f/2.8 is a classic, and the 120-Makro is a decent f/4 long-normal. Realistically,

the choice here may have as much to do with which focal lengths you may be adding later.

If you like the 50 on a Leica, the 100mm may actually be closer in terms of field of view.

But again - the 80 or 75 has been THE normal 6x6 lens for forever.

 

---"CT*, CF, CB?"

 

I like the newer lenses, that no longer default to locking the shutter ring and aperture ring

together, but instead ALLOW one to lock them briefly by pressing a button on the aperture

ring. I like the "industrial" grid-textured focus/aperture rings on the CF lenses, borrowed

from the 35mm Contax/Zeiss SLR lenses, over the lumpier rings on the newest CB/CFi

designs (just personal taste, that).

 

Haven't used the 'budget' CB lenses except the 60 - which is the same optics as the non-

budget versions. No other comment there.

 

---"As long as it works... A12, ordinary WLF is what I'm thinking."

 

Sounds good!

 

As to shopping - I've never had anything but good experience with KEH, and always start

my non-local shopping there. 14-day return, warranty of some kind, BIG stock (usually).

[antonio_garcia_russell]

Bakker wrote: "Yes, it is possible for a Hasselblad to jam. Very occassionaly.

And when it does, it's always due to the user: either not knowing that he or she bought a

camera or lens that has been pummeled to death (in which case you do not need an

unjamming tool, but a refund, or failing that, a good repairshop, or even a new camera or

lens), or believing that a little brute force will make things work the way the manual says

they don't."

 

You seem to make a habbit of making these over zealous statements. I had a brand new.

I repeat, brand new 500CM that continually locked up. I sent it to David Knapman (who

actually trained David Odess) and he said that this is a known issue with them, probably

due to poor setup at the factory or parts working loose. I would rather tend to trust his

experience rather more than your misguided loyalty to Hasselblad.

[q.g._de_bakker]

Antonio again...<br><br>My statements reflect decades of use.<br>Your experience with a brand new 500 C/M is not a good one. But that does not mean that it is rule, rather than exception. Shits happens. And it happens to Hasselblads too.<br>Your report of mr Knapman saying that this is a known issue is quite believable too. But that's not the same as saying it is a common issue. And it really is not. On the contrary.<br>And that is, quite simply, a fact, which i'm sure people like mr Knapman - even though they only/mostly deal with the cameras that indeed have malfunctioned - will gladly confirm.

[antonio_garcia_russell]

Bakker,

 

You said that the issue with Hasselblads locking up is always due to the user. This is just

not true. It can be due to the user, or it can, as I have pointed out, be due to the camera

itself. Experiences vary. Some people never have a problem, but others clearly do. There

are many reports of Blads locking up on folks. I never said it was "a common issue". You

are putting words into my mouth. I said that they can have a tendency to fail. It is a

known issue with the Hasselblad V series that they can and do lock up. But like I pointed

out, if you get one correctly serviced by someone reputable like David Odess or David

Knapman then you are looking at a very reliable camera indeed and one that I would

recommend.

 

I suggest you read more carefully before jumping in and acusing people of spreading

nonsense.

[a_petkov]

From my experience Hasselblad V cameras lock up only due to user error. Otherwise they must have a mechanical problem.

 

But to state that they occasionally (on a whim or by chance) lock up, is nonsense.

[antonio_garcia_russell]

Anastas,

 

Nobody has said they lock up "on a whim or by chance".

[q.g._de_bakker]

Antonio,<br><br>Yes, a Hasselblad too can be broken. Kaput.<br>But if it is not (and most aren't) it will only lock up due to user error.<br><br>I agree that there is a lot of talk about cameras locking up. Lots of it from people who don't even have a Hasselblad to lock up. The rest from people who either bought a broken camera (in which case they need a refund, and a camera that isn't on the blink), or who do not quite know what to do with it (for which they can not always be blamed).<br><br>Now to the "common issue" thing: you, Antonio, again say things like "they can have". Now what are "they"?<br>See how you are making general statements, and thus are indeed suggesting it is a common thing?<br><br>And finally your suggestion: let me reply by suggesting that you think hard before writing nonsense. And then think again. And then maybe decide not to do it, until you can turn it into something that is factual, and does make sense (like the last sentence before you suggestion).<br>And try not to let a desire to be plain belligerent get in the way of that! ;-)

[antonio_garcia_russell]

Bakker,

 

I think if you read this thread you will see that any belligerence is all yours - indeed you

seem to be the only one shouting abuse at anyone and arguing for the sake of it.

 

Sounds like you should be a politician, the amount of spinning you produce is outstanding!