Rodenstock 240mm F5.6 Apo Sironar S as a moderate wide-angle for 8x10 - any thoughts?

[andrew_herrick]

Hi all,

 

I am looking to buy a wide angle lens for 8x10, preferably with some movements.

It seems I can either choose between cheaper options, such as the Fuji 240mm A

and others for around $500, but which don't have great movements. Or I can

spring for a Super Symmar for several thousand, which have amazing image

circles but which weigh a ton. I am interested in the Sironar S as a

compromise. If anyone has any thoughts on this lens (especially and tradeoffs

compared to the cheaper alternatives) I'd be keen to hear them.

 

Best wishes,

 

Andrew

[vijay_nebhrajani]

I have never heard of the Apo Sironar S referred to as a compromise; they are amongst the best plasmat lenses available for large format. But seriously, 240mm isn't that wide for 8x10, and I haven't heard of a Super Symmar in that focal length.

 

If you are talking about a 200-210mm focal length, then perhaps you mean Apo Sironar W, in which case there is a image circle compromise when you choose the 210mm Apo Sironar W over a 210mm SSXL. Or you could choose the monstrous 200mm Grandagon, which has a huge image circle and cosine to the third power falloff as the no-compromise alternative.

 

In large format, it is difficult to determine what you should go for without knowing the intended application. If you don't need much movement, the 210 Apo Sironar W is perfect. if you need lots of movement, then both the Grandagon and SSXL are good. If you must have least falloff, the Grandagon is your only choice, etc.

 

If you really meant it when you said 240mm, then your choices are fewer, but the Apo Sironar S is excellent. The Fujinon A 240mm doesn't afford much movement for 8x10 but I hear it is an excellent lens. The Apo Sironar S I have direct experience with, and it is excellent too.

 

Hope this helps.

[barry schmetter]

It seems like the 240mm Sironar S gives mainly gives you a couple of extra stops for viewing in exchange for the additional weight, size, and expense (over the Fujinon 240mm A). The image circle is only marginally larger than the Fujinon. For me, weight is a prime consideration, so I don't think the tradeoff makes sense.

[brucecahn]

I have one and love it. My 210 XL gets more use.

[erie_patsellis]

If you're not married to the idea of buying new, 210 Angulons in Compound shutters sell reasonably, be sure to buy it with the option of returning it within a reasonable time, as the Angulons can be easily damaged, a quick CLA by Carol Miller and you'll be good to go for a long time.

 

erie

[andrew_herrick]

Thanks all,

 

Vijay - with hindsight I guess compromise was a poor choice of words. I simply meant something between the lighter cheaper, less coverage lenses and the really high end SSXLs and so on. I was referring to lenses in general between 210mm and 240mm, rather than necessarily only considering 240mm.

 

Bruce - can you give any more insight into the differences between the Rodenstock and 210mm SSXL? Why does the SSXL get more use? What do you like and dislike about the Rodenstock?

 

Best wishes,

 

Andrew

[brucecahn]

Andrew: I think that I prefer it that the XL's have less contrast than the S, but it really depends on the lighting. Both are probably about equally sharp, but the S seems sharper because of the contrast. I use 8x10 in the studio, where to me, 300 is normal and portrait and 210 is when you want to get more of the room in. On the NYC streets the 210 seems like the one I want. If I were buying only one lens it would probably be the 240 because it is more versatile, but I use mostly 210 and 300.

[vijay_nebhrajani]

No problem Andrew - I was just kidding about the compromise part - anyway, I have to agree with Bruce here about the 300 and 210. I have no experience with the SSXL, but I do have a 210 Apo Sironar W, and a 200 Grandagon N - the 210 AS-W gets the most use (predictably). The Grandagon is excellent, but it is too bulky and heavy to carry around so I compromise and use the AS-W. I assume that the 210 SSXL is not as monstrous as the 200 Grandagon, and may be easier to lug around, but I have no experience with it so I can only speculate. As far as contrast goes, the AS-W seems to be less contrasty than the equivalent AS-S, so keep that in mind when you compare it with the SSXL.

 

Now the 240 is sort of in-between; it is probably not wide enough for 8x10 landscapes etc, but it is wide enough that you can't shoot 8x10 portraits with it. IMHO the 240 works better as a lens for studio portraiture in 4x5.

 

On an unrelated note, for 8x10 portraits, my choice is 360mm, not 300mm.

[chuck_pere]

A good 8x10 lens is the Fuji f6.7 250mm. Coverage is listed as 398 mm. I've used mine on 8x10 with no problems. They have a good reputation, are small (67mm filter size) and are fairly cheap. Downside is that they are only available used and are single coated.

[Troll]

How about a nice, clean, used 10" Commercial Ektar? Often come up on ebay, and the price is usually right.

[stefan_geschke]

If light and reasonably priced is your objective, a lot of people, including me, are using

a 240mm G-Claron on 8x10 with great success. The official specs say that these lenses

don't cover 8x10, but in reality the specs are extremely conservative and stopped down a

bit you can get 80 degrees out of them, which is an image circle of about 400mm

for the 240mm G-Claron. Several people report

that they are using a 210mm G-Claron on 8x10, with some room for movements.

The G-Clarons are only single coated

and have been discontinued recently, but you can get excellent new samples and maybe

even a new one if you look around.

The 240mm version comes in a Copal 1 shutter, has an f/9 aperture (which I don't find to

be a problem) and takes 52mm filters. Dykinga uses a 270mm G-Claron on 4x5.

He apparently does not mind that it is only single coated.

[keith_lubow]

The 240 on 8x10 is kind of like a 35mm lens on 135 format, in general feel. That is about as wide as I would ever go 90 percent of the time, personally; especially for landscapes or in studio. Great thing about having a 240 is that you also get a slightly long lens with almost unlimited image circle when you put it on 4x5.

 

In the long run, the amount of money you will save by making the switch to a Sinar DB system is staggering. I would look at that if you think you will be buying several lenses in the coming years. I am shopping for 360s right now, and they are no more than 1/3 the price of the same lens in a Copal 3 shutter. Of course, first you need the Sinar then you need the shutter, but in the long run it pays off, assuming you don't already have a bunch of lenses.

 

Keith

[sergio_ortega7]

Andrew,

 

As Bill suggests, the 10" (250mm Wide Field) Ektar is a great moderate wide angle lens for

8x10. It provides tremendous coverage and is very sharp. Good ones are getting harder

to find, though.

 

Also mentioned, and probably within your budget, is the older 210mm Angulon, and

possibly the newer 210mm Super Angulon. These are also great lenses and will give you a

noticeably wide look on the 8x10 format, though not too wide. In your position that's the

one I would consider. I have a 210 SA and it's my favorite wide lens for 8x10....however,

it's pretty big and bulky.

 

There is also a 200mm Rodenstock Grandagon...I have not seen one for sale in recent

years...and I'm sure that would work well, but it's probably more expensive than the

Angulons. The Sironar S lenses are outstanding, though I've not used one in that focal

length, as are all the others suggested. But, if you're on a budget, then most of theses

newer designs, while great lenses, will be out of your price range.

 

As for focal length, I'm of the opinion that the 10" class of lenses (240-250mm) are really

not that wide for 8x10. I often have a hard time seeing much of a difference (when I look

at the image formed on the groundglass) from the 10" WF Ektar and (so-called) normal

lenses in the 300mm range. Going wider, to something in the 200-210mm range will

really open up things.

[sergio_ortega7]

There's also a nice 190mm Wide Field Ektar on ebay right now, looks to be in very good

condition.

[frank_menesdorfer]

Or you can get that lovely Wollensak 8x10 WA which is also on Ebay