Group photos advice

[ryangautier]

I am buying a bunch of stuff for studio/on location work for large group shots

(hence why I am posting here).

 

I was wondering how some of you more professional photogs would shoot this. I

have groups of 16 kids (and then individual shots too) full body, probably

putting them in two rows (8 per row). The room is 16x32x 8ft high ceilings. I

want to shoot so everyone is in focus (F8 or F11 I assume).

 

I need advice on what modifiers would work best and where they should be

positioned please. Do I use umbrellas (size)?, softbox (what size / brand)?,

anything else I am missing?

 

What I have or am definitely ordering:

 

1. Mark III

2. 40D

3. 2x - 580 Ex II flashes

4. 2x- WL 1600 strobes

5. Mini Omnibounce for flashes

6. 4x - PW Plus II's

7. Sekonic 358L - with PW chip

8. 60" Photogenic Eclipse Plus umbrella

9. ?? Photogenic Eclipse Plus umbrella (what other size do I get?)

10. 3x - Avenger 635 light stands

 

Anything i missed and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

Ryan

 

I would love to get examples like this website but for groups shots.

 

http://uk.fotopunto.com/articulo-explained-lighting-schemes_60

[barry_kenstler1]

Ryan,

 

First, I have already read your related posts and the associated responses over at the lighting forum, so I'm responding to more than this posting.

 

I know that there are some situations that merit complex lighting of big groups, such as some of the editorial work done by big-name photographers (Annie Liebowitz comes to mind) for big-name magazines. I suspect that the vast majority of large-group portraiture is done with fairly simple lighting. I think that is part of the reason so little info is out there on lighting groups.

 

Actually, I liked the direction you were heading in your first post. As I remember, you suggested a 3x4 softbox on one side and an umbrella on the other for fill. I might even take the cheaper route and use two umbrellas, one for the main and another for the fill. For a situation like this, I think a big umbrella can be just as good or better than a softbox. Used in close for smaller groups, the softbox has an edge though. I'd keep the main light just under 1 stop stronger than the fill and keep the fill light fairly close to the camera-group axis to avoid crossed shadows. I'd feather the main light across the group (point the center of the umbrella in front of the group) so that the light intensity across the group is as even as possible.

 

There are plenty of other simple lighting techniques for big groups. Some people use two umbrella lights at equal strength on either side of the camera. The light can be quite even, but it's pretty boring. When I shoot really big groups, such as 50 at an event, I often use a bare-bulb immediately over the camera. You can get surprisingly even light this way. I've even shot large groups (12-15) with a single 60" umbrella directly above the camera, albeit back about 18 feet, and gotten suprisingly even and flattering light. Nobody would recommend it here, but it works quite well.

 

If I were you, I'd be more concerned with the posing. It will be tough to do two rows of 8 in your space. Do you have to pose the group as two rows of eight? Is there any chance of breaking it down into say, three subjects with crossed legs seated on the floor in front-center, flanked by one on either side kneeling (one knee up and the other down), five kneeling behind this front row, and six standing behind them, for instance?

 

Oh, good equipment choices in my opinion. I might also get the medium 46" Eclipse too. They're relatively cheap and useful. With an 8 foot ceiling, you might not be able to raise your light as high as you'd like to in some situations if all you have is a 60" umbrella. Huge modifiers are fantastic--if you have the space.

 

Lastly, great site you've found. Thanks.

[ryangautier]

Barry,

 

thanks for the useful comments. I appreciate them. Yeah I love that site wish someone had one for groups. I am trying to keep it simple. KISS theory. I am ok with buying the 60", 42", and softbox (just still need brands, but noone is commenting on that part). I am ok with lighting things however they work. My main thing for these shots for now is that the parents really liked the shots with just my speedlite on te camera, I just wasn't happy. I am ok with flat lighting (I just want the shot) for NOW.

 

Any other thoughts? How would you put the power on the lights? Would you position the lights just to the right and left of the camera? Or say more like 6ft away from the camera in the corners and pointing in toward the center?

 

As you can tell i am a little lost.

 

Thanks

ryan

[bob_macdonald]

Barry.....

If you were to use a 36x48" softbox, would you turn it to the horizontal position? Just curious.

[barry_kenstler1]

Ryan,

 

My strobe equipment is over a decade old, so I'm not really up on the latest stuff. I worked for a studio that used White Lightning and it held up well. There are lots of good makers out there. Certainly Profoto, Elinchrom, Bowens(Calumnet), Dynalite, and Speedotron can be recommended without reservation. Alien Bees (White Lightning) are all the rage because of their incredible value.

 

On the Softbox front, I think you have to be more careful. Cheapy softboxes may be OK if you assemble them once, lock them in place, and do no more. But, if you are going to be breaking down your boxes, you do put quite a bit of stress on the wands and fabric. It is perhaps the one place I'd spend the extra money. I've always thought the Westcott boxes looked like a good value, but I don't own any of their boxes, just their Apollos. I have mixed feelings about the boxes I do own, and really can't recommend them without reservation.

 

For umbrellas, I have primarily Photek and Photogenic umbrellas. They both do the trick.

 

On the lighting setup, rather than reinvent the wheel, why don't you go to my lighting website http://portraitlighting.net/ and go to the examples section and then to the second example in the two-light setups. That is essentially what I was talking about. Another cool thing you can do with the fill light is to raise a large white reflector panel or white cloth against the wall behind the camera and point the fill light back at it just above head level. Assuming you have a white ceiling, this creates a big fill source that spreads out pretty evenly through the room.

 

More later, got to go.

[barry_kenstler1]

Bob,

 

If ceiling height were not an issue, I'd most likely use a horizontal softbox orientation for a horizontal composition, and vertical for vertical. With an 8'ceiling, as in Ryan's case, it might yield the best lighting in the horizontal orientation with the light moved up as high as possible, especially with standing subjects and where eyeglass glare could be an issue. I often use my 3"X4" on the bias when shooting individuals. Mind you, those are just my opinions. I'm no expert.

[bob_macdonald]

Thanks, Barry.....

Makes sense to me!