dance shots at wide apertures (1.4 / 2 / 2.8)

[michael_k.1]

Hi,

 

I have a D80 with sb-800, ultra high ceiling (no flash bounce) in a rather dark

room.

 

I plan to use wide apertures @ 800 iso (above is too much for the D80) with a

bit of (direct?) flash (lens are 30mm 1.4, 50mm 1.8, 17-50mm 2.8)

 

Is the use of apertures like 1.4, 2 or 2.8 took risky (blurry) for dance shots ?

 

I'm not talking about a slow dance but rather the one you have to catch at

1/125s or 1/160s.

 

Your help & photo samples are welcome.

 

Regards,

 

Mike

[faux_toe]

If your shutter speed is 125th or 160th I doubt that you are going to get much for ambient light even at those wide apertures. Your main light source causing the exposure will be from your flash. As long as you are focused correctly you shouldn't have any problem with subject movement causing blur. Your flash will freeze the action at either 200th or 250th second anyway. What effect are you going for? With the 30 1.4 you can probably get away with dragging the shutter down to 1/30th and still pop some light on your subject with the flash. Your colors will be off though unless you gel for what ever the room lights are.

[fotografz]

Nothing wrong with blur on dance shots ... they are moving, and a bit of motion blur helps convey the energy.

 

But you are totally in control of the degree that movement is recorded. Just remember, the camera controls the ambient background, and the flash lights the foreground.

 

Basically, set the camera on Manual and select an ISO and shutter speed that'll open up the background ambient light. With the flash set to TTL, it'll light the subject, and because the duration of a flash is what determines freezing the subject action, you can use a reasonably slow shutter speed. The more

ambient light the camera is capturing, the less the flash has to work ... which makes the flash duration even quicker. However, at some point, the flash becomes weaker than the ambient background light and the blur can become overwhelmingly dominate. It's a balance.

 

When you are using a wide angle at a distance to capture a group dancing, the depth of field is greater than a normal or telephoto lens, so even f/2.8 can be used ... (see the attached bottom image which was a 16-35/2.8 @ f/2.8)

 

If you use a really slow shutter speed like 1/10th of a second, set the flash to "second Shutter" so the blurred light trails are behind the subject not in front or over the subject ... (see the middle attached photo with light trails from some background lights at a Greek reception).

 

Or if you use a really fast aperture normal or telephoto lens, you can isolate the subject from the background while the flash freezes the foreground subject ... ( see the top shot attached below.)<div></div>

[William Michael]

>>> Is the use of apertures like 1.4, 2 or 2.8 took risky (blurry) for dance shots ? <<<

 

I would not be inclined to use F1.4 or F2 on the 50mm or the 30mm lens: my major concern would not be the blur, but my narrow DoF (Depth of Field).

 

For a full crop Vertical shot of two people taken with FL 50mm at F1.4 on an APS-C camera the SD (Subject Distance) would be about 10ft: the resultant DoF is about 8 inches: a great photo in the offing no doubt, but not much room for error ! ?

 

However, I would be comfortable working (during a fast dance) with FL 17mm @ F2.8 to and SD of 6 feet, confidently knowing that I have about 4 ft DoF.

 

You might like to study what actual DoF control you have and do not have: and memorized a few key parameters, with each of your lenses, in this regard.

 

>>> with a bit of (direct?) flash <<<

 

I would not be inclined to use direct flash: the fact that the ceilings are: `ultra high ceiling in a rather dark room`, does not prohibit you from using (as one example) a white card and two strong elastic bands: an often forgotten (and much maligned) press gallery technique.

 

1/125 and 1/160 are really the upper end and a bit fast to drag the shutter and flash fill, for a dance shot, IMO.

 

WW

[wedding-photography-denver]

The use of flash to freeze the motion is a common practice, but the use of wide apertures in concert with flash and higher iso is less common. That is with good reason. The risk of getting too much ambient light in with a really wide aperture and high iso combined may leave you with nothing but blur.

 

If using flash for your frozen subject, I would prefer to use the SS to increase/decrease the ambient and fix my aperture somewhere around f4. Personal preference for this method though.

 

 

The other thing I will do with the dances (not break dancing stuff, but the smoochies) is use a wide ap lens at its widest and really high ISO. I know this is a tough one to get working and often (like 50%) leaves me with an OOF shot, but when it works, I love the intimacy it suggests and the mood promoted.

 

So, here are a couple example shots. The first one I shot with flash, having set the aperture to f4.5; shutter to 1/15th; ISO at 1250, I then set the flash to -1/3 ttl, and this is for fast dancing to convey the movement through both the blur and the freeze. The second was using an f1.2 lens at 1.2 and iso 3200. It was about as dark a place as most are and the shutter recorded at 1/100th. Lens is an 85mm. Totally different feeling to both shot, but each with its place...<div></div>

[pete_s.]

Great images guys!

 

As always aperture by itself means nothing because DOF depends on the focal length and distance to the subject too.

 

I think the major problem using shallow dof in low light with a non-pro camera is that you won't be able to track focus on a moving subject. Prefocus and keep the same distance to the subject works though or increase dof and use zone focus. Of course it all depends on how fast they are dancing too.

 

Peter

[conraderb]

mike - it depends. I find 1.4 and 2.0 useable if people aren't moving too quickly. if they are moving quickly, I focus much more aggressively and more often, and then I shoot more to compensate for the fact that there will be bad frames.

[picturesque]

Excellent advice above. I just want to add a couple of things. While f1.4 or f2 may not be too wide for certain shots, particularly if you want a narrow DOF, it may be for other shots, where you want a wider DOF, or for that margin of error photographing an event or action that will not be repeated or repeatable. So the answer is, it depends.

 

Also, you don't have to use direct flash if you can't bounce. A white card pointed straight up or tilted slightly forward on a tilted head flash will be slightly softer than direct flash, and will still get the maximum you can get out of whatever reflectivity exists, including off other guests around the subject. Also, you can try an on camera softbox, such as the Lumiquest softbox. Again--not that huge a difference, but there is a difference. Oddly enough, using a Lightsphere in the direct ahead position with the dome on looks nicer than direct flash, and the flash going out the sides of the Lightsphere contribute to reflectivity.

[jmichaelc]

"Is the use of apertures like 1.4, 2 or 2.8 took risky (blurry) for dance shots"

 

It depends on what your goals are in capturing an image. If you want to suck in all the possible ambient w/out too much blur then the larger aperture is your best bet. If your looking for isolation then the larger aperture/longer lens is your best bet. If your looking for lots of DOF, while at the same time captureing ambient, then a fast wide is your best bet.

 

Now days, i shoot dance shots with 3 different lenses from various vantage poins. I always begin the dance shots with a 20MM F1.8 prime. Here the action is typically slow and the viewing audiance has all eyes on the bride and groom. This is good for the overall drama of the viewing audience and the b/g dancing. About midway through the song, i slap on my 100MM F2 where i isolate and capture the eye gazes of the Bride and Groom looking at each other and holding each other close and tight. Lastly, i put on my 50MM F1.4 in anticipation of the swings, dips, kisses etc...

 

With all of these lenses, i shot wide open. The 20mm @ 1.8 gives me plenty of DOF, the 100@ F2 gives me plenty of isolation, and the 50mm F1.4 gives me plenty of speed. All of them give me maximized ambient when used in conjuction with rear,side or ceiling bounce and ISO's that range from 500 - 3200 typically.

 

If you aren't concerned with the ambient, then the lens slection becomes secondary to basically your flash output.

[jmichaelc]

20MMF1/8 wide with lots of DOF

[jmichaelc]

20MMF1/8 wide with lots of DOF oops...forgot to attach

[jmichaelc]

20MMF1/8 wide with lots of DOF oops...forgot to attach..been a while<div></div>

[jmichaelc]

100mm F2<div></div>

[jmichaelc]

50MM F1.4 action<div></div>

[kiva]

f2.8 is not to risky at all. Shutter at 1/60; f2.8.<div></div>

[kiva]

I would also point out that "focus" is not always the point ... capturing a moment my be just as valuable to the story.

 

This was part of a planned period during dancing where the shutter was very slow 1/5 sec at f2.8 and the purpose was to capture emotion in with blur. Happened to capture the bride jumping into the grooms arms.

 

It's as if you see two brides! (Lucky Guy!!)

(this shot and the one above at 17mm)<div></div>

[michael_k.1]

Thanks a lot for your advice and samples ! (they are great)

 

I will try all this in a few days.

 

The DOF seems to be more critical than the blurry effect.

 

Regards,

 

Mike

[jbs]

Grab someone else's flash for some fun too...<div></div>