On-camera sharpening question

[jose_angel]

Usually on-camera image settings like sharpening are by default on a middle

point betweem maximum and minimum. I suppose RAW files (.nef) are opened and

shown on NX at their "native" (=no sharpened) configuration, whatever the

setting I have on the camera.

 

But on JPEG files, if I set this to "minimum" (=0), is the image then converted

at their "native" sharpness or is it "desharpened"? I doubt it because at this

setting, straight JPEG files looks really soft to me.

[seland]

NX uses the setting you have in camera when opening raw/NEF. NX do not apply any settings to a jpeg (not 100% sure, but I think this is right). When setting jpeg sharpness to 0, are you talking about inside NX?

[jose_angel]

I`m always refering to in-camera settings. Yes, NX can sharpen JPEG, NEF or TIFF images. What struggles me is that I don`t know if setting the camera sharpness to minimum (=0) I`m "defocusing" the image or just not appliying any kind of sharpening to the image. I`m a bit thick today...

[keith_lubow]

I do not know exactly for your particular details, but my guess is that the default setting is in camera is for a little sharpening, and that putting it on zero applies no sharpening to jpegs. My guess is that for raw files, in-camera settings may be carried over with the files as a convenience feature for editing, but the settings are not permanently applied until you give the order to sample the raw into an image file. My guess is also that this sharpening cannot be undone on jpegs, so if you have the time, it is best to shoot them with no sharpening so you can better control it and get fewer artifacts in Photoshop. (When I have time, I do the sharpening on a merged top layer using the high pass filter, and then mask out the areas I don't want as sharp using the brush tool. You can't get anywhere near the amount of sharpening control you get in Photoshop when using the raw converter programs.) There is little reason for anyone to ever want to unsharpen an image, and if they do, they are likely going to take it into Photoshop to do it.

 

Just guesses based on what would make sense, and how it happens with my stuff, which is different than yours.

 

Keith

[mars790]

Sharpening is like salt. Too much is bad for you and you can't take it out...

 

What camera are you using? In the D300, i keep sharpening on 3 (out of 9). I feel that this

setting gives a good starting point for jpegs.Then i use Unsharp Mask, usually at 75%,

radius of 1.0 and a threshold of 2.

 

Also, depending on the subject, i might use a lesser setting on the whole picture and

brush in sharpening over key points in the image. Similar to what Keith mentions.

 

The output must be considered as well. Print and web have different needs, with print

work requiring a bit more sharpening.

 

www.ricmarderimagery.com will show you examples.

[walterh]

"... if setting the camera sharpness to minimum (=0) I`m "defocusing" the image or just not appliying any kind of sharpening to the image."

 

You are NOT defocussing, you just do not apply any sharpening to the RAW image.

[arthuryeo]

I do not think that sharpening=0 is to defocus because that will confuse the heck out of the users. The manual says nothing about defocusing and so I believe our assumption that it is unSharpened (not defocused) is correct.

[jose_angel]

Thank you all for your help (and for your recipes). I need to deepen about this topic.

 

Ric, I`ve been also using D300, usually at standard default settings. I needed to lower sharpness.

 

Just one more question: Why not to shut-off all in-camera sharpening, if this image (JPEG, RAW or TIFF) will be post processed?

[berg_na]

There's a nice summary chart of the default settings of the D300 picture controls at nikonians.org. The sharpness setting is 2 in neutral mode, 3 in standard mode and 4 in vivid mode, so it would be reasonable to conclude that a 0 setting corresponds to no unsharpen filtering.<br><img src="http://www.nikonians.org/dcfp/user_files/13567.jpg">

[robbie_robertson]

Regardless of camera setting, RAW files don't receive in-camera sharpening. The setting is however contained in EXIF data, and as somebody alluded to earlier in this string, some software automatically uses the EXIF data to apply sharpening upon import. Regarding your last question, yes you can turn camera sharpening off altogether for JPEG's to allow more accurate control in post-procesing.

[douglas lee]

Just to clarify (and perhaps I am the only one needing this clarified), Capture NX will

recognize the in-camera settings for NEF(RAW) files and present the image with these

settings applied. Of course, they can be turned off if desired. I don't believe ay other

software does this. Most others pick up the WB setting, but nothing else.

[jose_angel]

"Capture NX will recognize the in-camera settings for NEF(RAW) files and present the image with these settings applied".

 

I understand it means that if I set in-camera sharpening to say, 3, NX will open and show that RAW file sharpened at level 3. Isn`t it?

 

"Of course, they can be turned off if desired."

 

Obviously I can turn-off that settings in the camera, but, does it mean that it`s possible to undo that in-camera sharpening to the RAW image opened in NX?

[douglas lee]

Jose, yes, that is my understanding. I am no expert, however, based on all my reading and

my limited experience with NX (I use LR 90% of the time) that is how it works. Also, I just

opened an image in NX and turned off selected in-camera settings. For example,

sharpening can be set (within NX) to uncahanged, none, low, medium, etc.

 

Third party products appear to ignore (more accurately, they probably cannot decode the

camera settings) camera settings. NX is able to decode the settings and apply them.

However, NX lets you turn them off and start from scratch, so to speak. I spend way too

much time reading photo.net, nikonians and DWF, but what I have attempted to say is

correct to the best of my knowledge.

 

Regards,

Doug

[walterh]

1) Jose the image data in RAW = NEF files up to date are not altered by the in camera settings. These settings are "descriptions" for image conversion added into the NEF files. It is therefore an easy task to reset these settings or set them to completely different values during RAW conversion or later post processing.

 

2) These in camera settings are applied to in camera image conversion into jpg files. The effects of these settings can not be canceled or altered in these jpg files.

 

3) Yes, NX is able to recognize and to apply in camera settings for viewing, handling and converting into other file formats.

 

4) No, NX is not the only RAW converter to recognize and to apply in camera settings to file conversion. For example Adobe Camera RAW plugin for PS CS3 (as well as some older versions and other Abdobe programs (like Lightroom)is able to read the white balance (WB) settings and apply these to the image during conversion. Other settings are ignored in this case but detailed "presets" can be defined and applied conveniently in this case and other software.

 

5) Some settings may indirectly alter the images taken and stored in RAW format. For example white balance settings and or settings like "vivid" may influence your perception of best exposure if you adjust exposure by following the in camera histogram. The white balance setting can later be changed in conversion and post processing of nef files but: The in camera histogram does not normally show the exposure of the recorded color channels directly but depending on the camera model is derived from the raw data after some processing that is affected by the in camera settings. So you may get fooled by the in camera histogram that is affected by camera settings. For "casual shooting" it is not a major concern and is a more complex topic and there are several discussions to follow - you may want to search for white balance topics.

 

The hardware and the software for image recording is a black box and we depend on Nikon's discretion just how much we know about the details. There is currently some disagreement in discussions on possible influence of some in camera settings on noise reduction for nef files and D-lighting feature possibly being applied to nef files. I can not verify any of these as I do not own one of these cameras.

[jose_angel]

Thank you very much. Your help have been so valuable.

[thomas_rutter]

The camera (or in the case of RAW, the RAW converter) needs to apply interpolation to the image before saving it because of the Bayer filter that the sensor uses. Without any sharpening applied, the image would look very soft as it comes straight out of the Bayer interpolation process.

 

All of the in camera sharpening settings for JPEG will add additional sharpening to this soft interpolated image, with one exception: there may be one setting which claims to add 'no sharpening at all' which will be the softest of all the settings.

 

The standard sharpening setting on the camera does add a fair bit of sharpening to this soft interpolated image. It is a trade-off between appearance of sharpness and faithfulness to the original interpolated image from the sensor. I usually like to set my in-camera setting a couple of notches below the default (when using JPEG) and sharpen further in photoshop.