Tony Rowlett Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Please try to keep discussions on the topic of "Leica" cameras and equipment, and cameras that are classified as "rangefinders." Digital point and shoot cameras should not be the topic of discussion (e.g. the topic of a thread). You can certainly make reference to them so you can make comparisons, but they should not dominate. Thank you. Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie_cheung Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 What do you mean by dominate? There's only a couple threads in the whole last week with Digital P&S as the main topic. I posted the DP1 thread here because many leica users dig small point and shoots style cameras. What's the big deal? Just curious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjords Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 yehH, some Bloke brokE into my Hudson t' other night, while eye was havin' a cold one. They took t' laptop and t' pentax W30...left t' M4 with t' Noctilux 1.2, guess they couldn't figure out how to turn it on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 There is nothing new about asking that forum threads on photo.net stay on-topic. It has been that way for years and years now. Allowing OT threads in a forum causes some percentage of users to be annoyed. Restricting OT threads in a forum causes some other percentage of users to be annoyed. However, the latter choice has the added advantage of keeping information on the site organized. Given that a site has to choose between one or the other (allowing a "few" OT threads typically leads to having "many" OT threads, or arguments about "why was my thread moved and that one not moved"), photo.net long ago decided to pick the option that at least keeps the Nikon forum talking about Nikon stuff, the Wedding forum talking about wedding stuff, and the Leica forum talking about Leica stuff. Does this piss a few people off? Of course it does. But quite frankly, a site that has as broad of focus as photo.net is never going to please all of the people. Smaller more focused sites (rangefinderforum for example) have an easier time since they just have one main group of users to cater towards. RFF can add a "digital cameras" area that users know will be read only by rangefinder users. Photo.net doesn't really have the option of having a "Leica OT" and a "Canon OT" and a "Nikon OT" group. We all have visited sites that split their forums up so much that there is very little traffic in each individual forum. It's a quick way to drive participation down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewanc Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I surely get mildly annoyed when I see too many R related threads in the Leica *and* Rangefinders forum... (just joking OK!) But seriously, what about the digital P&S made by Leica? Surely they are Leica cameras, which is OK to discuss them, but then they are digital P&S, which is not OK according to Tony's post. Now if we allow people to discuss Leica digital P&S, then people with Panasonic digital P&S (as some Leicas P&S are essentially rebadged Panas or vice versa?) would say why not let them discuss their cameras here too. And then the rest of the digital P&S crowd would argue the same. What to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Those are the grey areas that it is up to each individual moderator to decide on. Tony has a long history of doing a very good job of drawing the line for this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis1 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I don't use Leicas anymore and whatever I have left of that brand now sits in my dry box collecting spider webs. I guess it's hard for me to "stay on topic" anymore. I hope I can still post some photos here done by other brands though. If not, i guess I won't have any reasons to post. Been a pleasure under your supervision Tony and Josh! ;) Fantastic job over the years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie_cheung Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I still don't see the domination. Where's the domination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 >>Tony, pardon my thread hijacking<< One thing that I am looking into, that may help this situation, is the concept of "critique circles" (long time members may remember that we had a badly designed version of the 5-7 years ago for a bit). This would create interaction and discussion (though image based) within a set group of people. So, say a group of people from this forum wanted to make a "RF style" critique group. They could say "no problem travis, we like your stuff and don't care if it is shot on a digital camera". While another group might be a "Leica M created images ONLY (no other RF manufacturers)". It's not something that I have solved the programming to create (to be honest, it's not me that is solving it). But it is part of the improvements that I would like to make to the critique system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 <i>"I still don't see the domination. Where's the domination?"</i> <p> Tony did not say that they "were" dominating, he said they "should not". It is simply a reminder of forum policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive1 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Isn't the M8 a "digital point and shoot" camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'd be unhappy if I couldn't talk about my Digilux 2 and D-lux 3 here. After all, I bought the D-Lux 3 after reading a couple of threads here. I use them alongside my M2, M3, M6, and MP. This is the Leica and Rangefinders forum, after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivek iyer Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 There is a separate forum for digital P&S cams to discuss speculations, features and performances. Clive, The M8 is not a P&S digital camera. It is a true range finder *SYSTEM* camera. A very expensive camera. The only reason (expense) that prevents me from getting one and using my ultra fast lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canfred Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hi Clive, a camera requiring the user to set focus is NOT a Point & Shoot. This is the true "rangefinder" these days the fact is lost by many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_reynolds Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm sure this discussion was happening when I got on in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg1 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Clive, I tend to agree with you. I think rangefinder cameras in general were the original "point and shoot" cameras, although I take exception to that term. There are few, if any cameras that one only points and shoots, or you could say they all are. Point and Shoot is not a thing, it is a method. Rangefinder cameras certainly are not the only cameras that require or allow manual focus, many SLRs were manual focus only. With a rangefinder one could say you don't actually focus at all, you just line up the RF patch. You needn't make any visual judgement for that or DOF, because you can't. This relieves the photographer of that responsibility and gives it over to the mechanical system..not significantly different from AF..the motor is just one's fingers on the lens barrel. This is great, speeds things up, you just point, line up the patch, and shoot. A modern "point and shoot" camera is the same, point, half press until focus is indicated, shoot. There must be something besides method of focus that distinguishes the RF from all others. And how about the Contax G2, or Hexar AF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_stobbs3 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Where do cameras made after i970 with no rangefinder, only viewfinder, (such as Minolta HiMatic G, Konica C35V) fit in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_shihanian Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 " Where do cameras made after i970 with no rangefinder, only viewfinder, (such as Minolta HiMatic G, Konica C35V) fit in? " Definitely not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_neuthaler Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Oh, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_nu_tamm Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 "You needn't make any visual judgement for that or DOF, because you can't." -You still can judge DOF by other means, and many leica-shooters regulary do - something you can't say about most point and shoot users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 How about a Subtopic category labeled "Digital?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg1 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 "something you can't say about most point and shoot users." You can't say anything about most "point and shoot users", or Leica or RF users. I didn't say that judgements are not made for focus or DOF with RF cameras, only that they cannot be visually verified/previewed. You set focus according to the mechanism, you trust it, and you set the aperture for the effect you predict based on what you understand will be the outcome. The same holds true if one is using an Olympus Stylus Epic or such, or an all-in-one digicam with AF. That's assuming that one is actually a knowledgeable photographer. The fact that most casual shooters who just want "a camera" that they can point and shoot without thinking, doesn't make everyone who uses a camera that allows that a "point and shooter", or make the camera a "point and shoot" camera. Most of the current compact digicams offer more photographic options to the user than any film RF camera did, and are far more sophisticated. They also carry on the spirit of the Leica, which was originally considered a miniature camera for the amateur, before "miniature" 35mm was adopted by serious photographer-artists like Kertez and HCB. Convenience and portability was as important to the success of the Leica as it is now for the digicam. I believe the "small sensor" digital camera, such as the Ricoh GRD, is very much in the spirit of Leica and rangefinders, but maybe this forum should be restricted to talk only of mechanically coupled RF cameras that accept interchangeable LTM or M mount lenses and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_nu_tamm Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Actually, I can't find forum called "Point and shoot's". So I must admit the closest place to discuss those cameras is here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Leslie and all, there really is no problem. I just wanted to post that reminder is all. Everyone knows it already, too. Use good judgment and I promise to keep a light hand in moderation, OK? (By the way, the DP1 looks cool. I am so angry that the M8 costs so much.) Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 I meant to say in my previous post that I don't intend to trample on people's natural tendency to introduce "non-on-topic" cameras into threads here. It is completely natural to do so. The "on topic" reminder in the back of people's minds, however, will help keep the forum on track. Sort of reminds me of the drunk driving his pickup home following the number one rule: OK to swerve a bit, just try to keep the lane between the two stuck-up thumbs on the steering wheel. :-) Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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