Which Graduated Neutral Density Filter To Start

[hugebob]

Hi All,

 

I'm in the market for a soft-edge graduated ND filter. And, like most of us

here, I have fiscal limits. I'm wondering which filter to start with: 0.3 0.6,

0.9, etc. I hope this isn't a dumb question. But, which, in your experience,

seems to fit most scenarios? I can't afford to buy multiple filters right now

as all the ones (glass) I've seen (Tiffen, B+W/Schneider, Singh-Ray) are $170+.

So, I'm trying to get one that will fit most scenarios until I can get more.

[awindsor]

The rectangular ND grads are all resin I believe. I know that the Singh-Ray ones are resin. Personally I use the Hi-Tech filters from Formatt Filters. Lee does make glass rectangular filters but not graduated filters.

 

I think 2 stops is the most useful.

[hugebob]

Oh, I've seen a bunch of filters that come in glass: particularly Tiffen and Schneider. There are "Water White Glass" versions which cost $230. Which is best: resin or glass? I wonder if there are any appreciable differences.

[alan_myers]

Hi,

 

I'd also recommend the 2 stop ND Grad as a starting point, then add on from there.

 

Alternatively, the Cokin ND Grads are pretty cheap (or, even cheaper, Adorama's Pro Optic line) and can be a great way to test what is most useful to you, before investing in higher quality stuff for the long haul.

[colinsouthern]

Hi Robert,

 

First thing to keep in mind is that there are 2 basic kinds of GND filter - the round screw on ones, and the rectangular ones that go into a Lee or Cokin mount.

 

Forget the screw on ones - they don't allow you to move the point where the graduations start and are very limiting.

 

If you're going for the rectangular ones then you're going to need to purchase the holder first. The two most common brands are Lee and Cokin - Lee filter holders are better quality, Cokin are cheaper. (I only use Lee holders). Both camps have holders in different widths - you're best off getting the 4" (100mm) wide versions.

 

In terms of the best filter to start with, I'm going to disagree with those above me - I started with 3 stop hard-edged GND and Reverse GND - and even they're not enough - if you're going for soft-edge then you're going to need something more agressive if you're going to be shooting "sun on the horizon" type shots.

 

I won't say too much more just now - come back to us if you'd like more in-depth info.

 

I shot this with a 3-Stop hard-edge GND

http://www.photo.net/photo/6630408

 

And this with both a 3 stop Hard Edge GND AND a 3 Stop Reverse GND

http://www.photo.net/photo/6846902

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[peter_houtmeyers]

Besides filters there are other way's to control exposure in a scene.

If you are willing to use a tripod you could also blend 2 or more exposures digitally. Here's an example how you can get a gradient filter effect. http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/neutral-density/neutral-density.htm

 

Keep in mind that using filters can cause reflections(between filter and lens or between multiple filters) and image degradation(the more filters added the worse the result). Good filters are expensive and even when you get a good set you do not have the flexibility that blending exposures can give. The transition zone in a graduated filter is straight(linear).....the transition zone between a bright sky and darker foreground is rarely straight.....unless you always shoot seascapes.The major downside you get blending photo's digitally is the extra work you have to put in. ....and you have to use a tripod .But its cheaper.

[dave404]

Peter is right about the reflections. I bought a graduated ND filter in the Cokin style mount but don't use it much since it gets reflections from the sun. I wanted it for sunset/sunrise situations. Bracketing the exposures and using the blend if sliders in photoshop to merge the two is a good alternative. HDR is another as long as clouds and other stuff is not moving.

 

That the nice sunset photo that Colin shot would take more work since you want the water to be slightly blurred not a hash of two exposures. Probably needs a soft mask to exclude the other shot from the water itself.

[William Michael]

I have both the Singh-Ray 2 stops and 3 stops soft transition filters and I am very happy with both these Graduated ND filters.

 

I use the 3 stop filter much more often than the 2 stop filter: that is because of the shooting scenarios I am attempting to accommodate (into sunrises and sunsets).

 

I have also played with stacking these two filters, with mixed success.

 

If, (for example) your use will be for shooting more general, side lit; overhead lit; or back lit landscape scenes to balance the sky and foliage, I think the 2 stop soft transition filter would have more all round use for you if you decide to choose from the Singh-Ray options.

 

(note: soft transition as opposed to hard transition)

 

WW

[William Michael]

>>> In terms of the best filter to start with, I'm going to disagree with those above me - I started with 3 stop hard-edged GND and Reverse GND - and even they're not enough <<< (CS)

 

I wrote my response before reading yours.

 

Interesting, Colin, I found working the soft transition easier for me: I wonder if that is because I (mainly) until a couple of years ago was working with film only, and the latitudes therein?

 

But I note we agree that 3 stops is not enough on many occasions.

 

(and I do like the fact we both like shooting into the sun, with speedmasters at the ready)

 

Very nice shot across the rocks, the amber gets it for me, not gold, but AMBER, the promise of the gold to come? It is all about the anticipation and then the timing.

 

Note to others: (by no way demeaning the responses) this is the latest of a series of posts by Mr Nurse in his quest to get a GND, hence I guess why the question was so specific.

 

WW

[dougolupski]

I started with aLee 4x6 .6 soft ND filter and found the soft to be way to soft for shooting sunsets and the .6 to be two light. I have hence stepped to a .9 Lee hard ND filter and have been happy with my results. The Lee Soft way to gradual for me shooting sunsets or large landscapes, I always had a difficult time getting the gray portion where I wanted it since it faded out so slow. From what I have been told the .6 is two stops and the .9 is three stops but always as Murphys Law if you need it you don't have it.

[colinsouthern]

"I use the 3 stop filter much more often than the 2 stop filter: that is because of the shooting scenarios I am attempting to accommodate (into sunrises and sunsets)."

 

Out of interest Bill, have you tried a S-R Reverse GND yet? - I'm getting good results from mine.

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

 

PS: S/M stopped for no reason the other day - started when I touched the winder and has kept going ever since - but might be time for a service :(

[William Michael]

>>> have you tried a S-R Reverse GND yet? <<< (CS)

 

I do not have. Other priorities pending, but will add it to the list on your rec.

 

have a great weekend, sorry to hear about the SM, but bet the Sekonic is great :)

 

WW

[hugebob]

Thanks for all your responses: quite an education. But, with more knowledge comes more questions, LOL. I might try renting some filters and see which one gets the most use. But, I've been reading other opinions and 3-stops seems to be the starting majority.

 

On another tangent, I've been reading comparisons (mostly opinions) between Lee and Cokin holders. I'm finding that most say Lee holders are of better quality. What's your opinion? Also, anyone know the a comparable Lee holder to Cokin's Z-Pro? BTW, Colin, those photographs of yours are fantastic! When I grow up, I want to produce work like that.

[colinsouthern]

Hi Robert,

 

Thanks (blushing) ;)

 

Lee system is definately the way to go ... have a look at the following links to specific components at B&H (note: the actual adator ring sizes will depend on what lenses you're using - these are for 77 & 82mm diameter lenses (eg 16-35 F2.8 & 24-70 F2.8)

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/87108-REG/LEE_Filters_FK__Foundation_Kit_Standard.html

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/87121-REG/LEE_Filters_AR077_Adapter_Ring_77mm.html

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/87119-REG/LEE_Filters_AR067_Adapter_Ring_67mm.html

 

[and when you've finished ...]

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/491479-REG/LEE_Filters_BOOKINSPRO_Book_Inspiring_Professionals.html

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[stillbound]

I agree with the couple of post above that 2 stops was more of a "film starting" filter than it is for digital...

With digital I'd have to say the range moves to a choice between 3 stop or 4 stop...

Good luck

JC

[colinsouthern]

"With digital I'd have to say the range moves to a choice between 3 stop or 4 stop"

 

I concur. I don't have the balls to suggest starting with a 4-Stop - but I've certainly had a number of situations where 3 wasn't enough - and I have stacked to use up to 6 stops.

[Ian Taylor]

Pick up the Cokin 2-stop for cheap to see if you find it useful, then buy the fancy ones later.

[hugebob]

<i>Lee system is definately the way to go ... have a look at the following links to specific components at B&H (note: the actual adator ring sizes will depend on what lenses you're using - these are for 77 & 82mm diameter lenses (eg 16-35 F2.8 & 24-70 F2.8)</i>

<p>

I've selected the 58mm, 77mm and 82mm adapters for my BH wish list along with the Lee holder. I'll also take Ian's suggestion and pick up the cheaper 2-stop filter from Cokin and see how it goes. But, there is another question: resin or glass? Resin's cheaper. But, ...

[jeff_lundstrom2]

I am looking into buying a starter kit as well. I've been during some research on ND Grads and found a lot of useful 'how to' info at singhray's site (http://singhray.blogspot.com/search?q=marc+adamus). Marc's technique may solve problems with holders as he frequently hand holds his filters. Not only does he hand hold them he often 'moves' them during the exposure. Read the blog for more specifics. Just from the caption info seems that he uses the 2 stop quite a bit and the 3 stop more for shooting directly into the setting sun. Hope this helps.