Tearing my hair out - How do I add an icc profile for Epson 3800?

[tom_schonhoff]

I'm using Leopard, Photoshop CS3, and a new Epson 3800. I tried today to set up to use Innova Smooth

Cotton paper, and downloaded their .icc profile - very helpful website, that. Well, I can copy the .icc file

to /users/[me]/library/colorsync/profiles - and even figured out how to open the "package" and copy the

.icc file to /library/printers/EPSON/InkjetPrinter/ICCProfiles/pro38.profile/Contents/Resources.

 

OK, hmm. My initial print dialog, next to "printer profile", shows this new .icc file along with all the

canned profiles that came from Epson. I select this, click "print..." and the printer *driver* dialog

appears. I make my various settings but in the "Media Type" dropdown there is no mention of the new

.icc profile. It does show Velvet Fine Art under the "Fine Art Paper" section but all three options there are

greyed out (and none exactly matches the one I downloaded.)

 

So it looks like the printer driver can't see the new .icc profile even though I put it in the user list and

stuffed it into the "package" (AKA "Microsoft Word Bundle") for my printer. The ColorSync utility doesn't

have any option to import or add a new profile either.

 

HOW do I get this to work?

[patricklavoie]

1_i dont think you put the profile to the proper area. It should have been put in the profile section, in printer but not in epson. The profile will be use by Photoshop, you should not need it in the epson driver if you print correctly.

 

2_As for the media type you should select something taht is close to the paper you select, but it will only tell the printer to use the regular feeding slot or the back one..nothing to do with how to print.

 

a ICC profile is meant to be use with Photoshop, or other Color MAnaged software before being in the epson driver.

[robert_brake1]

You have the profile in user/library etc.and that is OK. It would actually be better in

Finder/Mac HD/Library/Colorsync/Profiles as then it will be available to all users.

 

in PSCS3 go to View/Proof Setup/Custom and see if your profile is there. You can click

that profile on and you will be editing in soft proofing mode as well. I would remove the

one you put into the Epson files, it may register somewhere but PS won't see it there.

 

The Innova paper will not show up in the printer driver as only the Epson programmed

papers will be there. Go to Innova's website or look in the packaging and it should tell

you the appropriate media setting. That media setting was used to build the profile and

should be duplicated along with other settings such as Best Photo or PhotoRPM or

something similar (this will be the printer's resolution setting) If you can't find those

settings they may be in the profile name. Since you are on a Mac you can open the profile

in Colorsync and you may find notes there that direct the media and print settings.

[godfrey]

Minor correction for Robert's path:

<br><br>

Printing ICC profiles should be placed in <b>/Library/ColorSync/Profiles/</b>, not in the

printer driver's package bundle. Only the manufacturers' profiles should go there. If you

copy that path and use the Finder's <b>"Go->Go To Folder..."</b> command, it will take

you right there (on Tiger anyway ... I have not used Leopard much yet).

<br><br>

Godfrey

<br>

[tom_schonhoff]

Well, I've followed all this advice closely. Here's the rub: Epson and Innova (and others)

provide .icc profiles for papers not included in the generic list provided in the Epson

driver, not even the Leopard Beta driver I downloaded from Epson. While I can get all these

papers to appear in the profile selection drop-down on the initial printing dialog, the

dialog box supplied by the driver (the one that appears after you click "Print..." in the first

dialog box) does not include them.

 

It sure seems as though the driver should be able to accept additional .icc profiles,

especially those tuned for the paper products sold by the very same company. Given that

they're stored in a directory structure and are in a standard format it appears self-evident

that this should be easy.

 

[sigh]

[patricklavoie]

ICC profile are meant to correct the how your print will look on a given paper if you use a color managed application like Ps or Lr.

 

Like previously said, you dont have to see them in the epson dialogue box if your printing from a color managed software. BUT i understand that if one doestn print from one, he should be able to select this profile in the epson menu...but since normal people use color managed application when they download ICC profile, they certainly assume that you dont need them where they are not suppose to be..

 

not sure im clear?!

[robert_brake1]

Tom you are overcomplicating things and missing the point. If in the first print box you have chosen Color Handling:

Photoshop Manages Colors and you have seen and chosen the appropriate profile you have now chosen to print through

that profile. On the second page are choices that relate to the printer driver (in this case Epson) that have relatively little to

do with the profile other than the settings that were used here to create the profile need to be duplicated if the profile is to

be interpreted correctly. Go here:

 

http://www.innovaart.com/en/icc-profiles-info/Epson.html

 

scroll to the bottom of the page and you will see an entry for the Print Settings for the 3800. Here you will find the correct

Print Settings: the ones that were used when the innova paper was profiled on an equivalent printer and the ones that you

should use when printing through the profile. Those settings relate to how fast the printer prints, how much ink to lay

down, resolution etc. These are paper/ink/printer relative and again, all you need to do is duplicate those settings and you

will print through the profile as the profile builder intended. You will never get the Innova paper nor any other paper not

originally built into the Epson driver (the Epson driver does not print through profiles on its own) to show up in the Print

Settings box!

[bennett_richards]

<p >Hi,</p>

<p >I am new to fine Art printing with my 3800 and I am sorry to re-hash stuff a year later but I am a LOT confused. I am not sure how Leopard's Colorsync works or why it's needed as I have installed the Epson's 3800 driver that has a drop-down list of printer drivers.</p>

<p >For convience I would rather add any new ICCs to the ICC profile Pkg file in the Epson driver so that they are available in the Epson driver's drop-down selection window... but how is this done correctly? I have a feeling that it's more complex than just opening the Pkg and dropping the new ICC files into it.</p>

<p >Since I am new to fine art printing I am way in the dark as to the How - what and whys of Leopard's Colorsync. If you have Epson's drivers with it's own selection of ICCs then how does that interface with any ICCs in Colorsync... or do you select the ICC you wish to use which reside in Colorsync in a differnt place than the drop-down menu in the Epson 3800's driver?</p>

<p >Any help would be great.</p>

<p >Running Leopard, PS CS4 and LightRoom 2.4</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>1_you dont *need* or use colorsync when printing let say.</p>

<p>2_you wont see any custom profile in the drop down menu in the epson driver, only epson own profile could there.</p>

<p>3_you dont need to add ICC profile to anything if you sue epson ink / paper, what you need is alredy there.</p>

<p>4_I suggest you read the how to print from your manual that came with your printer, it have a detail how to print for photoshop for mac and PC.</p>

<p>Dont complicated your life, printing is as simple as installing the correct driver for your printer, selecting it in Photoshop, use the correct ICC profile from Photoshop, and select the appropriate paper in the epson driver.</p>

<p> </p>

[bennett_richards]

<p>Au contrair... if only life and printing were really that simple...<br>

What if you have a paper say Hanah's Photo Rag Satin 310 which is a paper that needs a custom ICC generated as the manufaturer's ICCs for the paper are poor at best... or what if you really care to get the best results and want to use an ICC that is custom generated for your printer for a paper by a guy like Eric Chan.... Also the manuals are really not that great.<br>

But thanks for the help</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>1_custom profile are at best, give you a bit of more detail in the shadow, barely noticable most of the time. They are if you use epson ink and paper not really better than the canned profile, and if you see a major difference, it mean most of the time that you where not printing correctly at first.</p>

<p>2_if you use another manufacturer paper, then yes use there ICC profile, simply put them with the other ICC profile (read instruction on how and where to put them..simple drag and drop). You will then see them ONLY in Photoshop (and other software that use color amnagement) NEVER in the epson driver. So in the epson driver, not that it make a big difference, but you will need to choose a paper in the list that feel like the photo rag (being the velvet) this is for paper handling mainly.</p>

<p>3_The manual is perrfectly done to show you how to print using Photoshop, using the icc profile from there, and turning off colormangement in the epson driver. You can also search some old post of mine call <em><strong>how to print with a epson</strong> </em> if you want.</p>

<p>With a epson 2400 and up model, with a calibrated monitor and the correct use of the canned icc profile, you should and could get a amazing print the first time, everytime, following 2-3 simple step. no magic. no test. If you are finding your way as for now difficult you are doing something obviously rong and complicated for nothing.</p>

[bennett_richards]

<p>"2_if you use another manufacturer paper, then yes use there ICC profile, simply put them with the other ICC profile (read instruction on how and where to put them..simple drag and drop). You will then see them ONLY in Photoshop (and other software that use color amnagement) NEVER in the epson driver. So in the epson driver, not that it make a big difference, but you will need to choose a paper in the list that feel like the photo rag (being the velvet) this is for paper handling mainly."</p>

<p>Patrick... exactly where does one drag and drop the iCC profile files to?</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>mac / pc ?</p>

<p>on a mac; 1 place could be hard drive / user / librairy / colorsync / profile</p>

[godfrey]

<p>Bennett, <br /> <br /> The drop down selection in the Epson print driver "Print Settings" panel are only to set up the printer for the basic media type requirements, based on the settings you made in the Page Setup dialog for which printer, paper orientation, and size/feed type.* They're NOT the ICC profiles used for color-managed printing. The Epson printer driver is not designed for you to add new types to this drop down menu ... each media type listed has an association with various other print driver options, based on feed type and sizing. <br /> <br /><em> *Note that some applications running in Leopard maintain separate "Page Setup..." and "Print..." commands. Others combine both into the "Print.." command and embed the Page Setup functions into the same printing dialog.</em><br /> <br /> Placing new ICC profiles in the <strong>/Library/ColorSync/Profiles</strong> location makes them available for any application that enables ColorSync color-managed printing on Mac OS X, including some print drivers (like the HP driver for my 7960) that uses ColorSync exclusively for color managed printing. In the Epson drivers, in the panel of the drop down menu named "Color Matching", note that you can use either EPSON Color Controls or ColorSync. When you choose ColorSync, you can pick which profile to use from there ... Automatic means "tell ColorSync to follow the Media Type in the Print Settings dialog" where picking a specific one basically allows Media Type and color profile to be used independently. <br /> <br /> Also notice in the "Print Settings" panel that there is a popup called "Color Settings" in which one of the options is "Off (No Color Management)". These are linked as well to both the Color Matching and other settings. <br /> <br /> As you can see, this is not simple. There are several ways to obtain color managed printing workflows. Piloting your way through the process in such a way that you get the best results for your particular printing needs is complex, and there are likely at least two or three different ways to achieve the right end results. <br /> <br /> Fineart photographic printing is usually done from applications which have their own, independent means for managing color like Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Lightroom. With these kinds of applications, most people doing color-managed printing bypass the ColorSync mechanism and allow the applications to do the color management, rather than the EPSON print driver. They depend on the ICCs to be located in the <strong>/Library/ColorSync/Profiles</strong> location (and others that they manage themselves) to present the profile selection to the user. In the Epson print driver, the option to turn OFF color management is used and now the media type simply sets up the appropriate platen/print head/ink volume parameters for the paper type based on the built in selections and Page Setup sizing/feed parameters. <br /> <br /> IN short, what I do for color managed printing.... <br /> <br /><strong><em> one time configuration needs<br /></em></strong> <br /> - Calibrate and profile your monitor, be sure the calibration is chosen in your working account.<br /> - Install the ICCs not already installed by the EPSON R3800 print driver and whatever other EPSON accessory packages into the <strong>/Library/ColorSync/Profiles</strong> location<br /> - Configure Photoshop's color settings<br /> - Configure Lightrooms Print module "Print Job" panel with all the ICC profiles you want to use. <br /> <br /><strong><em> once you're done editing your photos, to print with<br /></em></strong> <br /> - <strong><em>Photoshop:</em></strong> Use the "<strong>Print with Preview...</strong>" dialog to set up the printing job, walking through <strong>Page Setup</strong>, selecting the correct printing process, picking the right paper profile, and then in the print dialog disable color management, pick the right media type, set up the printing resolution and quality level to match the profile you chose in Photoshop, then click the print button.<br /> <br /> - <strong><em>Lightroom:</em></strong> In the Print module, pick a basic template preset as a starting point. Click the <strong>Page Setup</strong> button to set the printer, paper size/feed and orientation. Click the <strong>Print Settings</strong> button to set up the Epson Print Driver. Work your way through the right hand panels to set up your printing layout, overlays, etc. In the <strong>Print Job</strong> panel, set up the resolution and pick an ICC profile required. At this point, <strong><em>create a new Template</em></strong>, name it so you can recognize what it's for in the future. After you do that, and in the future, all you need to do to print to that same format is to select the collection or thumbnails in the FilmStrip at the bottom, click on the template, and click the <strong>Print One</strong> button.</p>

[bennett_richards]

<p>Dear Godfrey,<br>

Thanks very much for such a well thought out answer.</p>

<p>I think my follow up question would have to be are the printer ICC profiles included with the Epson driver ever used if one always prints by letting LR or PS CS4 manage the color? When printing in Epson's Advanced B&W mode are LR/PS managing the color or is the Epson driver?<br>

My 23" Apple Cinema display is calibrated using an x-rite puck with Color Eyes Display Pro... yet on the first prints I noticed that the prints were coming out quite a bit darker than the screen output. My luminance is set low... about 100 so something is not 100% somewhere....</p>

 

[patricklavoie]

<p>when you print from Ps or Lr is the same thing..you use the ICC profile in those software, not in the epson driver, where you should turn color management OFF.</p>

<p>When i pritn BW, i dont use either profile, as specify in the manual, i turn color management OFF everywhere (yep no profile use in Ps or LR) and let the printer driver handle that wiht the Advanced BW mode.</p>

<p>If you set your luminance to 100 on a 23 apple cinema display you are seriously too low..or you work in a dark place..too dark place. 110 should be the lower you should go, and many user state that 120 should be this minimum number. Can you post some screen capture about your Ps setting when printing? whe can certainly help you there.</p>

[godfrey]

<p><em>> I think my follow up question would have to be are the printer<br /> > ICC profiles included with the Epson driver ever used if one<br /> > always prints by letting LR or PS CS4 manage the color?</em><br /> <br /> When you print letting LR or PS manage color, you are manually selecting those profiles in the application and telling the print driver to ignore color management specifics and pass the data through unchanged. With color management turned off in the driver, you choose the paper type in the Print Settings dialog just to tell the driver how to set up the platen and ink head for the media type, based on the Page Setup choices you've already made. <br /> <br /> <em>> When printing in Epson's Advanced B&W mode are LR/PS managing the<br /> > color or is the Epson driver?</em><br /> <br /> When you use the driver's ABW mode, you tell LR/PS to let the printer manage the color. The driver is in control of the output based on the media type and what you do with the controls. <br /> <br /> (Unlike Patrick, I do all my monochrome printing with color management ... I do whatever toning, etc, I want to do in LR/PS.)<br /> <br /> <em>> My 23" Apple Cinema display is calibrated using an x-rite puck<br /> > with Color Eyes Display Pro... yet on the first prints I noticed<br /> > that the prints were coming out quite a bit darker than the<br /> > screen output. My luminance is set low... about 100 so something<br /> > is not 100% somewhere....</em><br /> <br /> This issue is common and usually a matter of display Luminance vs room illumination. <br /> <br /> I set up my ACD23" to Luminance 110-120, gamma 1.8, white point 5500K targets with the Eye One Display 2 and Eye One Match 3. My workspace has normal office/reading level illumination, with off-white walls. The results coming out of the printer are generally speaking a very high fidelity match to what's on the display.</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>If you select <em>let the printer managed color</em> in Ps or Lr, you will get darker and block shadow (most of the time) that way..thats why you should turn the <em>color management OFF in those software <strong>IF</strong> you use Advanced BW mode</em> .</p>

<p>BUT if you tone your images yourself, or print BW images and Color Images in the same page, you should of course print those like usual, meaning with a ICC profile.</p>

[bennett_richards]

<p>Dear Godfrey,<br>

I went to Library\Colorsync\profiles and found lots of profiles in there... many installed by Silverfast for my scanner also Blue Tone .icc and AdobeRGB1998.icc and Black & White.icc.. in this top level "Profiles" folder there are also the sub-folders "Recommended", "Profiles", and "Displays". Opening "the "Profiles sub=folder I see photoshop4DefaultCMYK.icc and WideGamuteRGB.icc, BlackWhite.icc and another recommended subfolder. Nowhere have I seen an ICC profile that appears to refer to a printing paper!<br>

Is the top level "Profiles" folder where I should place the Paper ICC profiles I want to use? <br>

Signed... Still confused.</p><div></div>

[godfrey]

<p>Mac OS X's file system uses UNIX syntax, Bennett. The file system uses the 'forward slash' or '<strong>/</strong>' character as pathname separators, and it is case sensitive.</p>

<p>Put any paper profiles you want to use into the folder <strong>/Library/ColorSync/Profiles</strong>. Ignore any sub-folders and aliases to other folders ... they are installed by Photoshop and other packages for their purposes. I don't know what the specific profiles you're looking for, but the system and the Epson print driver installation, as well as Photoshop, put them in the places appropriate to their use. The R3800 install put the ones specific to it down in the Epson print driver resources area. </p>

<p>If you run the <strong><em>ColorSync Utility</em></strong> (in <strong>/Applications/Utilities</strong>) and click on the <em>Profiles</em> tab in the toolbar, you'll see everything that is installed in the system with regard to ColorSync and profiles. They're in a number of places.</p>

[bennett_richards]

<p>Dear Geofry,</p>

<p>I opened Colorsync.App and I found Eric Chan's profiles I had added to the "Profiles" folder when I looked in Colorsync.app's "profiles" display under "Computer" along with Adobe RGB (1998)</p>

<p>I then looked in the App's "Devices" and it was there under Printers\Epson Stylus Pro 3800 that I found the paper profiles that must have come with the 3800's driver.</p>

<p>Does it matter that the new profiles landed where I found them???</p><div></div>

[bennett_richards]

<p>Here is the Device display</p><div></div>

[godfrey]

<p>Bennett,</p>

<p>Again, the applications and software that can use the profiles directly (the print drivers, Photoshop, Lightroom, et al) know where and how to find them once they're installed. The only thing of importance, once you've run whatever installer might be used or manually dropped them into <strong>/Library/ColorSync/Profiles</strong>, is whether or not Photoshop, Lightroom, or any other tool (like the <strong><em>ColorSync Utility</em></strong>) that accesses the profiles directly can find them. </p>

<p>Don't worry about where they are. Just test that the app you're going to do your printing with can find them. ;-)</p>