Rene11664880918 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Sorry guys! If I post this on critiques basically I don't get advice, only rates! So please don't get upset! Basically white snow and a black lab the way to go is B&W. I was trying to get better results but I couldn't really so I'm asking for advice! Here are 2 shots, it was snowing so that's what those white stripes are. I used EV+ and this is what I got! the dog (Jiroh= second son in Japanese) is getting too old and I really need to get a nice picture this year to keep after his departure! Thanks for your help! Rene'<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene11664880918 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 I meant to say EV+2. Here is the other shot<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank uhlig Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 What = do you think = is wrong with the picture? It looks nice as it is. If you want less contrast, take the dog there and reshoot. If you want the dog to look "grayer", not so one color black: expose longer (and the snow will be all lilly-white). If you want to see structure in the snow: expose less (but then the dog will be cut-out black all over). So, what did you intend to do here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_brown4 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I assume the problem is lack of detail in the snow. The only way to handle this is the keep the highlights of the snw within the dynamic range of the sensor, while still capturing detail in the lab's fur. So, you set exposure (via the histogram) to get snow detail, and then add fill flash to bring the lab's fur into the lower ranks of the histogram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene11664880918 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 Frank... Thanks! That was fast. I didn't explain well. I have to reshoot again when it isn't snowing so I can get rid of the flakes falling. Well, the snow is completely blown out! I can't even see his steps on the snow. If not he is completely under expose and no detail, just a black shadow. I was wondering if there is a way to get good detail on him and also on the snow! It was a very dark day! Should I wait for a sunny day or is over casted better? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_greenberg Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 You've unfortunately set up a worst-case exposure scenario; but hey, you knew that already. One thing you can do is to use the shadows/highlights adjustment in Photoshop. I have a black lab mix dog myself, and I use this tool to bring out highlights on her coat. I don't mean you should use the tool full strength; a subtle 15% or so adjustment probably is enough. If you wish to retake the photos, you can also adjust the contrast settings in your shooting menu; try setting for lower contrast. Finally: maybe it's just the way you prepared the image for web presentation, but these pictures seem a bit soft. You used fairly slow shutter speeds. You might try raising your ISO a bit so that you can use a faster shutter speed. I don't think raising your ISO to 200 or even 250 will degrade your image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene11664880918 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 Douglas... Thanks! I will try everything! I really want to make a huge print (poster size) to hang in the living room. I could do it in summer on grass but I like the B&W effect better! For sure I will try what you just said! Rene' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Do not use compensation, but shoot manual exposure. Meter the snow and open the lens 1.5 or 2 stops for snow in full sun. With varying tones in the pic, the compensation is just a guess. As you recompose with any auto exposure the exposure will change and it should not. With manual, you get it right, You don`t have a black lab here, but a dark grey one. Whether the snow will be rendered properly when you make the dog darker is unknown. I don`t know if this is a digi photo, scanned film or scanned print. It would help to know. If this is black and white film, the snow without detail can be cured by developing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_in_PA Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I like the photos the way they are! complete with blown-out snow and streaks of falling snow. Don't change a thing. I think I'm going to take my black german shepherd outside today (it's snowing like crazy in Western PA on 1/1/08 at 11:03am) and snap a few... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squiggs77 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 If you can get your lab to sit still for half a second, you can set your camera to burst and turn on exposure bracketing. Then combine two images in post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene11664880918 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 Dan... Sorry I missed your post a few minutes ago. Thanks. Ronald... it is digital RAW. Peter... maybe you are right! looking at it is original! I will try all you guys tell me until I get something I really love! Seems I'll be busy but then again, what wouldn't you do for a best friend? Rene' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phototransformations Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I think exposing for the snow and using fill flash for the dog is the obvious way to go. But if you don't want to use flash, take two sets of shots, one set exposed for your dog and the other, from the same exact position and focal lentgh but _with the dog out of the picture_, of the snow only. Then combine in photoshop, using the dog shot as the background layer and overlaying the snow shot with the Blend mode set to "Darken." Because the dog is black, the snow won't blend with him, but it will show up everywhere else. If there are minor glitches you can mask or cline them out, but I doubt there will be. I've used this technique to mask in a darker sky, for instance, without having to do anything to the horizon because what was on the horizon was darker than the masked-in sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastallight Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I'm wondering what BW conversion you are using? That might be a big part of the problem. There are a variety of ways to convert. I have a black dog, also older and with cancer so prob our last winter as well :-(. I've done fine with the snow and getting his black coat with details. I couldn't tell you how but my D80 tends to underexpose so that may be why. Can you post a SOOC? (strait out of camera). I'm sure there is more detail available they you think! I'd be happy to help on the bw conversion with you as well. Send me an email if you'd like. Just put black lab in the subject so I know you're not spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 everyone has great suggestions, most esp the use of flash and/or PP work. personally, i would have picked up my S5 Pro for this type of shot (equal in challenge to a wedding shoot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tri-x1 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I think the two pictures are great. Given the two extremes you are dealing with some compromises must be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcraton Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 By now your dog must be cold. However, I have been married 28 years and we are only on our third dog as all have lived a long life. They are like family. But, you should meet my family and then you'd understand why I like my dog and love my wife. . .back to photography. You may also want to work with Level adjustments in a separate layer and adjust the amount opacity within that layer, adjust how you want the layer applied (normal, dissolve, overlay, hard light, etc.), work with other parameters within layers already mentioned--ad infinitum. Layers can be your friend for high contrast shots. There are free tutorials all over the web applicable to photography (not to insult you, but post can be your friend). Also, here is very cool BW plugin for PhotoShop that will give you excellent control (free): http://www.photo-plugins.com/Plugins/Plugins/B-W-Conversion.html. You also can find come other realy cool plugins there as well. I have found this particular one to allow me to render as if I shot with Tri-Max. Good luck and happy new year. Dog shot back atcha, may he rest in peace.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcraton Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 ps: above shot was a quickie and is very compressed for upload. Wall shot looks real cool. Just defending my insecurity and obssessive tendacies that there is a bit of OOF and other anomolies with want I posted. Maybe I need to go back and make a few New Year's resolutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_sokal___dallas__tx Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Since your shot in RAW, the first thing I'd try is two open to copies of this image, one with the exposure adjusted for the detail in your dog and the other for the detail in the snow. Then click shift and drag the lighter image on top of the darker one (that will perfectly align the two copies). With a mask, you can paint out the blown out snow to reveal the detail underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_ferrante Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Hi Rene`, I'm the guy from the other thread with the same problem. I think the 2 shots are fine they way they are. I like the B+W shots, after all, even in color they are basically B+W anyway and you get a little more detail. Like Peter, I have no problem with the streaking snow flakes. Since this is a sentimental photo, they will help you remember the day you took them better while it was still snowing. Maybe if you were to drop the overexposure down a notch you might get a blacker dog without sacrificing too much detail. It might even bring out the detail in the snow just a touch. I am in the same position as you, my dog Indie (for Independence, born of the 4th of July 2000) is 7 1/2 years old and I want to get a few shot showing her in her prime of vitality and exuberance. Here is a shot of my baby, not so much snow in this, buy I couldn't resist showing her off. ;>)<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_weber1 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I agree with "mj t" - shoot a Fuji S3 or S5 and you'll have both shadow detail in the dog AND highlight detail in the snow. I have not shot black dogs on snow, but have shot black and white Canadian geese on snow with my Fuji S3 - no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_ferrante Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 So sorry! I grabbed the wrong photo.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Then open the file in raw converter, move the exposure down to left to make it darker. Move the highlight recovery to right Maybe move the black to the right to darken the dog use linear contrast curve unless med contrast looks better Check the histogram on the next shoot to be sure there are no blown whites or off scale black to the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybeach Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I'm very sorry to hear about your dog Rene'. As you have already said in your OP, this question has been asked and answered already in a previous thread. Buy a Speedlight and diffuser (SB600 will do, it costs about $200; diffuser runs $20-$50), set your exposure manually based on a spot metering of the snow (meter it at +1.75 EC), then set your flash compensation to TTL (not TTL-BL) at -1 EC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene11664880918 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 Good morning! WOW! You guys are great! Thank you so much! I will print all your advices and work on it. I will try everything as I said before and I'm sure I will learn a lot doing so. It is so much here that I can't reply to every one. I also will try with flash, I have the SB600, just sometimes I forget it is there. Justin... Just a bit of bragging, he was a certified rescue dog from the age of 2 to 8, now he is retired and lazy, but still on command he will stay still up to 30 minutes which makes it so easy to shoot at slow speed. Carolyn... thank you so much! I will do! Paul... I remember you! That came out really well! David... your Dal (Alex) looks great! Amazingly labs are so strong in the cold. We used to train for days in temperatures @ -10C (15F I think if my math is working well) and his tension just kept getting higher. Then again he was young and strong. I think I will set up a photo studio in my backyard early today. I got 40 more cm of fresh snow today. Thasnk you so much and I know with your help I will get a great shot! Rene' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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