M6 .85 with Lux or MP .72 with Cron - please help

[gmmullins]

I am getting back into Leica after a breif run with digital - I prefer the

tangible aspects of film, etc....

I wear glasses and will stick with a one lens unit for at least a couple of

years. My options are an M6 Classic .85 and a 32xx serial number 50mm Summilux

or an MP with a .72 and a latest version 50mm Summicron. My funds are fairly

limited - therefore, it is either the lower priced M6 with the higher priced

Summilux or the MP/Cron combo. I am struggling with the flare issue on the M6,

the Summilux not being as sharp as the cron, but on the other side, I like

the .85 viewfinder and the reported signature/romantic aspects of the Summilux

(I have never owned one, just a Summicron, DR Summicron and a Jahre Summicron).

Sorry for long post - any advice would be appreciated.

[john_gleason1]

If you wear glasses, you might be better off (in the long run) with the MP's 0.72x viewfinder. The 50mm framelines shouldn't be a problem, but anything wider might be. I've got an MP with 0.85x finder, I wear glasses, and I can see the 35mm framelines (barely!). Lots of eyeglass wearers can't do that, apparently.

 

Viewfinder aside, I prefer the MP to the M6, but others will recommend the opposite. Lux vs. Cron is partly a matter of your working style: Do you really need that extra stop, and will you use it frequently? Personally, I'd opt for the Cron, but that's just me.

[andrewlamb]

Hi Grady,

 

If you are going to stick with a 50mm lens, why not go for the peerless M3? No flare issues

(at least not on mine) and a .90 viewfinder that is a joy to use. I'm currently using my M3

with a 40mm rokkor which I think is a staggeringly good lens, especially for the money.

[gmmullins]

Thanks John. Just to clarify - the Lux is the pre-asph. Since this will be my only lens for awhile, I do not want to limit myself to f2 - but is the f1.4 a useable stop on the Summilux? I read some posts that say the Lux is a Cron with an extra stop, the Cron is sharper to the corners, the Cron is harsher, etc...

I shoot mostly black and white and will do an equal share of low light, bright light shots. I don't want to limit myself, but don't want to get prints back, if I choose the Lux, that are not as sharp as the Cron. Thanks.

[love4leica]

MP .72 with a cron. For that extra stop you can use a stop faster film. MP will also hold its value and is a much superior camera.

[gmmullins]

Thanks Andrew. I would love to do an M3 - but I am not the worlds best at metering and wanted the in-camera metering of the M6 and MP. I wouldn't mind doing a handheld for planned shots, but I don't want to use it for everyday shooting. Thanks.

[Troll]

Grady, I too wear glasses, and can't really use my beloved old M Leicas confortably because of them. I think that if I were buying a new rangefinder camera, I'd have a serious look at the Zeiss Ikon because of its more modern viewfinder, designed to work with spectacles.

[robert_ardinger]

The M6 .85 "classic" is a slightly different version of the M6. I think there were only about 3,000 made. As far as I am aware, they are all black and they are all "late models", having been made at the end of the "classic" M6 run. Their prices seem a bit higher than the standard M6 (.72) of the same vintage/condition. I had been very interested in finding one.

 

The M6TTL had the .85 finder availible, I think from the start or near the start of the production run, availible in both silver and black.

 

My M6 is a .72 finder but the M3 I had years ago of course was not and I really liked that finder (about a .9) with the 50/1.4 "lux" I had with it. I liked the look of the "lux" and felt it to be quite sharp and would get one again.

 

I did not like the rewind crank on the M3 (and doubt I would like it on the MP).

 

If it was me, I would go for the M6 (if it really was a "classic" M6 .85 and not a TTL) and the "lux". I very much like the internal meter in my M6 and find it very accurate. I do not have much problems with the "ghosting" (it is there but is just one of the "features" that I at times have to work around, another "feature" is focusing on clear walls or repetitive patterns).

 

My M3 left in the late 70's after a "repair" misadventure, the old "lux" went too. My current set actually includes the 50 "cron" as, given a choice, I thought it would be nice to have all my lenses (35,50,90) use 39mm filters/caps and be as small as possible. I actually tried to get a "lux" at that time but the "cron" I obtained was a very good "deal".

 

I recently added a 28/2.8 so am going to stick with the .72 finder on the M6 (the 28 uses 39mm filters). A second M6 and other items I had were converted into an M8 in the fall. The "standard" filter sizes help a bit with the number of IR filters I need to deal with.

 

No doubt that the MP and "cron" are likely more modern and not likely to need service soon (the .85 M6 might need a CLA soon). Resale might be easier with the standard .72 finder.

 

The .85 M6 and a pre-asph 50 "lux" would be the closest "Modern" duplication of the M3/50 set I had and still miss at times.

[len_smith]

Without hesitation, I would choose the more modern MP with the latest 'Cron.

 

The MP is probably the best made Leica M body since the days of the M2, M3 and M4. It is truly a modern classic. The 0.72X viewfinder gives you the 28mm viewfinder frame that the 0.85X lacks, and who knows? You may want a 28mm for your next lens.

 

The latest 'Cron is probably one of the best developed 50mm lenses ever made. It is plenty sharp but still offers the nice bokeh that Leica lenses were famed for before the days of ASPH lenses. Distortion is extremely low. Compared to this paragon of 50mm lenses, the pre-ASPH Lux lacks sharpness, and not just wide open.

 

If you really, desperately need something nearer f/1.4 for occasional use, you could invest in the MP and 50mm 'Cron plus an inexpensive "Jupiter-3", a former Soviet-made 50mm f/1.5 copy of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar. This will cost about $120 plus shipping from the big online auction site. You will also need an L39 screw mount to M bayonet adapter.

 

Or spend a little more on a 1960s/70s Canon or Nikon 50mm f/1.4 in L39 screw mount for a lens that beats the performance of the pre-ASPH 'Lux by a mile, offering excellent sharpness and nice bokeh.

 

You have options as far as your choice of lens is concerned. But the choice of body is straightforward. Go for the MP.

[marek_fogiel]

Grady,

Your question is like that of someone asking if Jaguar E type is better than an Alfa Romeo

Giulietta (both cars made in the 60') on today's highways.

Get up to date.

The camera which is not only best, but cheaper than Leica - and this relates especially to a

glass wearer - is the Zeiss Ikon. The same regards the lenses- the 50/2 Planar is in my

opinion better than a Summicron. If you want the "dreamy portrait lens" get the C Sonnar

50/1.5 as well, and you will be set.

[35mmdelux]

Easy choice: the MP and 50 Cron.

 

The Lux is a nice sweetener but the .85 restricts the use of the camera, nevermind the electronics. The Cron is more than adequate, more compact, and if additional speed is needed use faster film. Easy choice here.

[neilambrose]

<p>I don't understand why these are your only choices. It sounds like you might be

picking them up second hand as body + lens combinations, but it's a bit restrictive. A

better way to buy is to look at the body and lens separately. Get the body you want from

one place and the lens you want from another. The used market is huge, and you can get

almost anything you like at a wide range of prices depending on condition and age.</p>

 

<p>But, all that said, an MP is a better choice than an M6. You get better build quality and

a fix for the viewfinder flare, which you might like to know if you're still undecided

between the two bodies.</p>

[henry_chu2]

Grady, The pre-ASPH Summilux 50 is my favorite lens for film M's. The only reservation I have for the one you might buy with serial # 32xxxxx is that the closest one can focus is 1 m vs the more modern iteration of 0.7 m. I wear glasses as well and the M6HM works well for the 50. Flare is a variable problem depending on how well you center your eye in the viewfinder. I had problems and upgraded the VF. Considering that an MP goes for around $2400 used and the M6HM about $1300, buy the M6 and upgrade the VF for $200.

[mark_amos]

The lens choice is so difficult in my opinion that I would make it easy on yourself and go for the MP, which is not a hard choice. Then, per your options to us, your lens choice is made.

 

Besides, I don't think I would want the classic lux as my only lens. I would want at least one excellent-close-up low distortion ex f2 edge to edge lens, which the 50 cron is, first. I chose a 35 cron asph and later got a current 50 cron partially because of price. They are great together: both 39mm, small and beyond reproach, but having used the 50 cron, I think I would have more fun with the speed and look of the classic lux' but only as a complement to the 35 asph...maybe. I could go on and on, right? Get the MP.

[cebes_johnson]

As stated above, and as an owner of a BP MP, go for the MP if at all possible. It is genuinely, once again, a superior camera.

 

The refinements and quality of this camera are far superior to any other you will find. It inspires complete confidence and the quality does surpasss the M3.

 

Be prepared however, and I am not joking, if you are struggling with funds, etc. and/or are genuinely serious about photographyp...well, the MP is a camera you will never be able to sell or have great difficulty selling. Trust me on that.

 

It is truly the best, and once you have the best, it truly makes it difficult to handle anything else. It becomes very *personal*..how can I say?

 

It honestly becomes more than a tool, but an instrument. It feels like a quality timepiece, and is constructed likewise. There is a difference. It's a tank though and will take all sorts of hell.

 

I have travelled with mine to many, many countries (13) and use it constantly. Even the dust and heat of Afgahanistan did not phase it and the film survived completely intact and safely. Oddly only paint wear that exists on mine is the lever and the rewind knob?! (And I could also recommend it as a weapon as I beat someone over the f@#king head with it in a "situation" I had... brass is nice...<laugh)

 

A pleasure to use and I know it will endure like nothing else. I owned an M6 titanium and a chrome ttl..

 

The refinements are that apparent, and teh MP has the craftsmanhip I had been searching for in the others. (The M6 titanium is merely laser coated, not solid titanium as the new M7 Special Edition..my mistake. Yet who can afford a special edition?!)

 

The chrome ttl is nice, but it is chrome, which I don't like, and I did not like zinc of the others)

 

At any rate, My M6 titanim film counter stopped working because the gear is made of plastic, for example...these things have all been attended to in the MP and refinements in the gearing is like cutting through butter by comparison to the M6.

 

First time I handled an MP and wound the advance (while owning my M6s) I said aloud, "whoa...".

 

The shutter braking has also been refined...it feels quite simply like an entirely different camera which oozes quality.

 

It depends if you are sensitive to these refinements or not?

 

 

 

It is the perfect "artists" camera. I would never let go of this camera, would use an M6 as backup, yet never let this one go.

 

I am not a sad obssessed leica gear fanatic, but Leica is a great, great camera. There is not another maker that offer such a quality camera as the MP. Period.

 

I may also add it is the end of the M line. It's a special camera for that reason as well.

 

I can compare it to a Porsche in some respects. The earlier models are great, some have their quirks, etc., but all in all, it is best to get the latest model you can afford. The latest models have the most refinements.

 

But again, it depends what you want, the "qualities" may not appeal to you or be necessary. The M6 is a fine tool without question.

 

Best wishes.

[mattalofs]

Choosing the body before the lens seems a bit like putting the cart before the horse. While the features of a particular camera body can make the act of taking pictures more or less enjoyable, short of gross failures, it's the lens that matters.

 

Buy the lens you want, spend whatever is left on the body, even if buying the lens you want means you can only afford a bessa.

 

Shutter speed dial is too small on the MP anyway ;-)

[john_newell2]

I would go for the pre-ASPH Summilux and the 0.85x M6 myself - and did a while back. The pre-ASPH Lux is a surprisingly sharp lens, but is also extremely flare-resistant and delivers images that have (to me) just the right kind of look - sharp without being harsh.

 

The 0.85x M6 classic is almost like using an M3 with a meter...'nuf said. By the way, my 0.85x has not had the flare-resistant retrofit and I don't find it a problem compared to my other M6, a 0.72x that has had the retrofit.

[vic_.]

Of your choices, the pre-Asph Summilux is experiencing the most rapid price increase, so I would suggest that you only get that lens, and then shop around for a suitable body. A M6TTL would be a good option too. Summicron lenses are available all the time, so passing on this one is not a lost opportunity. Bodies are available too, just look around.

 

Also try:

 

www.igorcamera.com

 

for some good deals. (I have no affiliation, but have bought from him, and his prices are among the best out there.)

[laurentvuillard]

Body: easy answer buy an M6 (preferably TTL more recent); the MP is a collector item bearing a HUGE price premium for no photographic extra value , the viewfinder "flare" issue is an "Erwinesque" legend. As to the 50mm , at some point, I owned both. Cron is extremelly good from f4 but not so sharp at full aperture but even (edges are good). Pre asp Lux was very good IN THE CENTER at f1.4 or 2 but weak at the edges and would even at 5.6 where hand held is was like the cron. SO if you are likely to use it a lot at full aperture I DO reccomend the Lux (IF SN is over 1 860 000 as the previous version was not so good). If you usually do not require a wide opening the cron is better though there are four versions and the last is really better. Note that the current with built in shade is optically identical to the last detachab le hood version. The new Zeiss may be interestng but I've never used them. I hope this helps.