Low light dance photography

[kosztelnik]

Shooting a ballet dress rehersal in about 16 hours from now. Low lights, spot

lights, no flash, relative action. Done lots of searches through the

archives. I think I'm set.

 

Using Canon 5D, 70-200 f2.8 IS. Settings AV 2.8, RAW, spot meter, auto focus,

IS, single shot, iso 1600.

 

My question, is iso 1600 going to disappoint in terms of noise? I guess when

I'm actually there shooting I should adjust to the lowest iso that results in

an acceptable shutter speed.

 

Any other thoughts or pointers appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[sattler123]

Make sure you do NOT under-expose - with high ISOs it is an invitation for lots of noise. Check your histogram while you are shooting and make sure you expose as much to the right as possible without clipping the highlights. If you have the little 50mm prime - I would take that too - it will give you at least 1.5 stops more (for the 1.8 version)

[erictomenga]

I agree with the 50mm option, I had my 50mm f1.4 at a Walk with the Dinosaurs show in a low light environment and it worked very well. Of course the the dinosaurs there were taught to pause for a non-flash photo op. ;-)

 

Don't know what your light levels will be at but my favorite pick of a T-rex in shadow (no spots) was ISO 640 at f/1.8 for 1/400th.<div></div>

[erictomenga]

Sorry for posting that size photo. I had thought it would make it as an attachment.

[markonestudios]

Hi frank

<p>I haven't used a 5D, but from what I've read, noise is really well controlled on that body, so I think you'll be ok. I think I have some ISO1600 shots from my XTi, and they're definitely useable. The 5d is a step up from that, so I reckon you're ok. Incidentally, are you planning to use a tripod? I sure would. All the best on your shoot...:]

[catchlight]

Consider using the * button for autofocus, rather than the shutter button. (Custom Function 4).

 

This enables you to prefocus and selective focus with precision. Also, response is sped up because the camera has less to do when you fire the shutter.

 

Also, if the lighting is of the "coal mine at midnight" variety, ask the director to bump up the lighting levels for all or part of the rehearsal, especially if the photos are for their benefit.

[elliot1]

Shoot in RAW with ISO 1600 if you can, but if there is still not enough light, use ISO 3200. I find I get a little color noise at ISO 1600 but that is easily handled in CS2.

 

A good noise reduction program will take care of any noise issues. I use DXO Version 5. The combination of an excellent new RAW converter and advanced noise reduction work together to give fantastic results with the 5D without much if any loss in image quality.

 

If you want to try it out, they offer a 30 day free trial. There are many other new noise reduction programs available as well that seem to do a good job.

[tom l]

"Settings AV 2.8"

 

I would suggest shooting manual to better control your shots. You will not get consistent exposure in Av or Tv as you pan across the stage due to the hot & cold spots.

 

"Make sure you do NOT under-expose - with high ISOs it is an invitation for lots of noise"

 

Chances are you'll have a choice - underexpose the shadows or blow out the highlights. Protecting the highlights I think is much more important. You can deal with the underexposure and noise in post-processing. Its not ideal but you can not recover blown highlights. Faces, arms, legs and especially white (or light color) costumes will reflect brightly. ISO 1600 & 3200 are a must for this kind of shooting.

 

Adjust ISO as the lighting changes and watch your histogram.

 

Use a tripod, helps to steady and keeps you on the same level as you shoot a sequence moving across the stage.

[tommyinca]

Bring a prime (whatever you have) with f2 or better, just in case ISO 3200 is still not fast enough.

[sloopjohne]

Hi, Frank--

 

Ditto what Brent and Elliott recommended!

 

Also, if it's at all do-able for you, I'd trade in that 350D for a 40D ASAP:

 

The 40D's added optional high ISO noise suppression and highlight priority controls are terrific. I had to do very little noise reduction in ACR and PS-CS3, and also preserved almost all my highlight detail. In the rock band shot below (and the rest of the shots in that same gallery) I set the ISO at 3200 with both of those new features turned on and bracketed my shots at 1/2 stop increments with the 40D set at 6.5 frame/sec.:

 

http://www.pbase.com/sloopjohne/image/89976064

 

As you can see, the stage lighting was extremely limited. Yet using the aforementioned settings combined with my fast primes (Canon EF 28mm/f:1.8 USM; Canon EF 50mm/f:1.4; and, in this shot, Canon EF 100mm/f:2 USM) I was able to freeze the action in most of my shots, and get usable exposures in almost all shots. With the lenses wide open, the shutter speeds I got ranged from 1/90 sec. to 1/250 sec., which resulted in little to no motion blur.

 

Good luck!

[sloopjohne]

In my previous post I wrote: "Also, if it's at all do-able for you, I'd trade in that 350D for a 40D ASAP"

 

So sorry about that, Frank! I had just come off another thread started by someone having low light problems shooting with a 350D.

 

Your 5D, or course, is more than up to the task of great low light shooting. I wish I had one along with my 40D. (In your case, however, a 40D might make a great 2nd body for stage shooting because of the 1.6 crop factor.)

[rhaytana__tim_adams_]

I second the suggestion to experiment with the 'Hi' setting for ISO, rather than settling for 1600.

[robert lee]

"My question, is iso 1600 going to disappoint in terms of noise? "

 

Buy a copy of NeatImage. An evaluation copy can be downloaded for free. When used right, you can expect to bring the noise level of 1600ISO shots down to 200ISO levels with almost no loss of fine detail.

 

"Any other thoughts or pointers appreciated."

 

Take advantage of the slow shutter speed. Use the blur; use it to instill a sense of motion and dynamics. Not every shot needs to be like that of frozen birds in flight.

 

Take a look at the works of Ernst Haas, a photographer I admire greatly: http://www.photographersgallery.com/by_artist.asp?id=43

[andre_reinders]

I agree - Neat Image was money well spent. I own a 20D and use it on most of my ISO 1600 shots.

 

Here, almost are all taken at ISO 1600 with a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 - shot in manual mode. I took a couple of shots, looked at the histogram and adjusted on the fly until I wansn't clipping the highlights.

 

http://photoshare.50webs.com/ccanb07/

 

and here, the shots of the potter are taken with the same lens, and also at ISO 1600 with Neat Image processing.

 

http://photoshare.50webs.com/village

[james_martin9]

I am not a Canon shooter but I do shot a tone of low light theatrical stuff with and without a flash. Without I bump my Nikon D200 to ISO 1600 which does introduce some noise but it is manageable. I also crank the exposure compensation +1 to +2 f2.8 1/100 to 1/125th depending on the lighting. ALso I try to use custom white balance

[santa1]

the point was made multiple times to be sure to expose to the right. another poster commented you can always deal with underexposure in post. The reason people made the point that you should be sure to expose to the right is because an underexposed high-iso image, when brought up in post will create a much noisier image than one exposed to the right in the first place. You do NOT want to increase raw exposure in post with high iso images if you can help it.

As long as you expose to the right you can apply a noise reduction program to great effect. I use Noise Ninja. But if you underexpose the original image, the resulting noise after compensation in ACR or other raw developer becomes quite a problem.

AV and spot meter...makes no difference. Shoot Av or shoot manual. Anything but Tv I guess. In the end it still is a matter of shooting, chimping and adjusting. Part of the skill in this kind of shooting is having the experience to be able to shoot, chimp for 2 seconds and then return the camera to your face and make the adjustments and continue shooting till the light might change and you may chimp again. When I see somebody chimping, followed by 60 seconds of looking at menus, shooting again and chimping again, I know they don't know their camera. That's neither here nor there I guess.

These are kind of shooting conditions that makes one begin to look seriously at Nikon in the light of the D3. The idea of being able to actually shoot at ISO 9600 is more than a little appealing.

[kosztelnik]

Thank you everyone for your help. I was able to shoot with more confidence. Shot over 500 photos, with about 20 with too much motion blur. A pretty good success rate. I ended up sticking with iso 1600.

 

The noise issue was a non event. The photo below was probably one of the darkest scenes. Black dress against a black background with a bright white prop. The 5D performed better than I thought possible.<div></div>

[jakestuart303]

I don't know if you're still checking this post, but here are some photos I took with a 5D with a 70-300 3.5-5.6. Theses are my daughters dance recital last week. When viewing pics look to the right and you'll see an option for more info, that will give you my camera data. Hope you enjoy the photos and good luck with your shoot!

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/jakestuart303/120807MusicalResourceChristmasShow

[willhl]

I did photos for an amateur theater production recently, I used 2 bodies with Sigma 70-200 f2.8 on my 300D shooting AV and ISO 1600, then had 30D with sigma 17-70 and used manual with 2 flashes on radio triggers (was a dress rehearsal) or AV with no flash. I did have focus issues with this set-up so I did a while with a 50mm f1.8, no flash in AV between ISO 800 and 1600 depending on the light what was happening.

 

Because the light was constantly changing, let alone when the spotlight comes on, I found AV mode worked well but on occasions the metering wasn't great.