8x10 Protar V lens

[linas_kudzma1]

I just picked up a lens with the following writing:

Bausch & Lomb-Zeiss Protar, Series V Pat. Jan 13, 91. 8x10 2001790

 

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My recollection is that Protar V lenses cover 110 degrees. Can anyone confirm? Does anyone have old literature stating what the exact focal length this lens is, or any other detailed info? I love to play with vintage lenses and like to find out what I can about their design, history, etc. I will be testing the lens soon and am expecting enormous coverage. The seller stated he thought the focal length was in the 210mm range, which would give this lens a shot at 8x20! Unfortunately, my current 8x20 project camera can't focus such a short lens at infinity. Time to rebuild.

[dhananjay_n]

The Protar V consists of 2 doublets in the front and the rear. The

lens is a nice, sharp lens and is a backpackers dream, given how tiny

it is, especially for the larger formats. Regarding coverage, the

typical figures I have seen are 90 degrees which increases to about

100 degrees stopped down (think f/45) - the 110 degrees might be

unlikley. The focal lengths recommended for 8x10 were the 180 and

210mm. I have a Zeiss issues of the 141mm which does cover 8x10, even

wide open, although the fall off is pretty severe, and focussing at

f/18 wide open can be challenging in dim light. So, I would think

coverage on 8x20 would be marginal at best. Cheers, DJ

[linas_kudzma1]

Thanks for the info DJ. I did my first test of the lens this evening.

I haven't developed the film yet, but on the GG it looked nice and

sharp. Yes, a bit dim at f18, but I managed. I must have the 180mm,

because I removed the Protar and popped my Fuji 210 on the camera and

needed about an inch more extension to focus on the same scene.

 

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This Protar V is an incredibly small lens to cover 8x10. Really

remarkable.

[leonard_robertson]

My 1928-29 Central Camera Company catalog lists 11 focal lengths for

the B&L Series V f:18, from a 3 5/16" FL (covering 4X5 at f18) to a 37

1/4" FL (covering 20X25 inches at f18). The focal length given as

covering 8X10 at f18 is 7 3/16" (or 183mm if my math is right). This

is likely the FL you have. The catalog says "The angle of view of the

image circle is about 110 degrees...". It doesn't say that coverage is

at small f-stops, but I suspect it would only be achieved at f45 or

so. If 110 degrees is true, I calculate an image circle for the 7

3/16" lens of 20.5". Which is pretty incredible, although probably not

quite enough to cover 8X20 (I calculate the 8X20 diagonal to be 21.5",

although the actual diagonal of an 8X20 holder is likely a little

smaller than this.). If you are able to try your lens on 8X20, I'd

love to hear what you find out. The next focal length listed is an 8

1/2" FL for 10X12 format. It probably has a much better chance of

covering 8X20.

[linas_kudzma1]

Thanks for your answer Leonard. It certainly seems that my lens is

approximately 180mm as it is a bit wider than my 210mm. I will try it

on an 8x20 when I modify it for shorter focus. Even with the slightly

too small circle and the light fall off I'd expect, it might make for

an interesting ultra wide effect. In the meantime, it'll lighten my

load when shooting 8x10. It's in a Volute shutter that is cranky and

will need to be remounted into a modern shutter. Thanks again for the

info.

[leonard_robertson]

I took another look at the Central Camera catalog, and it shows all

focal length Series V Protars as being available in either barrel

mount or Volute shutter (even including the 37 1/4" FL). I have a

vague memory of someone saying the Volute isn't such a bad shutter (if

cleaned and lubed, of course). You might contact Mr. Grimes for his

opinion on your Volute. The Central catalog has also lists Zeiss Jena

Series V Protars, with focal lengths listed in both cm and inches. The

inches FLs are slightly different than the ones given for the B&L

Protars. The 7 3/16" B&L is a 18cm/7" in the Zeiss listing, and the

coverage for the Zeiss is given as 6 1/2X8 1/2", while B&L claims 8X10

coverage. I suspect these are essentially the same lens with different

labeling, but I'm not sure. Zeiss lists two shorter focal lengths that

B&L doesn't - 4cm/1 1/2" and 6cm/2 1/2". I also have an 8X20 project

pending - either an extension back for my 8X10 Eastman or an 8X20 box

camera, but it is a "next winter" project. I look forward to hearing

what you find out about using your Protar for 8X20. I would expect

dark corners, but it might be something a person could live with (call

it "artistic" if anyone objects to dark corners). In the meantime,

I'll try my 5X7 Protar on 8X10 format. According to my calculations,

it shouldn't quite cover, so the effect may be similar to using the 7

3/16" FL on 8X20. As for focusing at f18 in dim light, there is the

trick of placing a flashlight or other bright bulb in the picture to

focus on. It isn't really handy or fast, but it does work.

[linas_kudzma]

Thanks again Leonard. The seller (this was Ebay) sent me a copy of an

old B&L brochure that would seem to imply that this could be the

213mm Protar V. However the brochure is for barrel mount lenses, so

may not apply exactly to my volute-shuttered example. The seller also

said that mounted on a 12x20 camera this lens had a 20� circle of

illumination. It�s most likely a 183mm Protar V. In any case, I plan

to rebuild my 8x20 project later in the summer. I�ll let you know

what kind of funky dark corner pictures I manage to take. It�ll be

interesting. Dark corners don�t bother many great ULF shooters, so it

shouldn�t bother me!

[erik_ryberg]

Linas,

 

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My 1907 Bausch and Lomb Catalog says the "Bausch & Lomb-Zeiss Series V

Extreme Wide-Angle f-18" lens in the 8x10 size has a 7 and 3/16 inch

focal length. The lens has a 9/16 inch diameter and cost 35$. Or 52$

in a shutter. The catalog says "This series is intended for the most

exacting wide angle photography. It is the most desirable lens made

for this purpose. The angle of view is 110 degrees."

 

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My 6x8 protar v covers 8x10 with a smidgeon of movement, though the

corners get pretty dark. The catalog lists the 6x8 as having a 5 9/16

inch focal length. The 10x12 has a 8 and 3/8 focal length.

[linas_kudzma]

Great info from everyone! Thanks!

[will_groff]

I have the Bausch and Lomb Zeiss Protar series V lens, patent jan. 18, '91 stamped on it. It also has 5x7 V on it. This is the 3 5/16 focal lenght lens, a real honey.

I shot it on an 8x10 back in the '70s and there was corner fall off, but it was close to covering the whole film. The max f stop is 256.

This lens was given to me by a fella named Vince Spangler, who was my first still photo guide. Vince was the cinematographer for such films as , the original 'Blob', he created all the special effects as well. Another film was the little known, '4-D man'.

I had forgotten that i even had it until about 6 months ago when i started building a camera to put the lens on. Today, it will expose film for the first time in 25 years as the camera is done enough to give it a try.The camera, named the 'Opus 1' is a convoluted assembly from a polaroid colorpack body, a hand made back to accept 4x5 sheet film, the barrel lens is front mounted on a very simple kodak shutter, and the viewfinder is fashioned from a Pan- Vue 3 slide viewer which cost $3.00 and sports Leitz cover glass, ground to fit on the front, with a bubble level mounted inside the viewer.

It's basically a handheld 4x5, i put tripod mounts on as well. My biggest worry is to see if it can get past the back end of the shutter without catching the edges. So call me crazy, but who isn't.

Anyway, thought i'd contribute my 2 cents in memory of Vince.

Photonet has been a real resource and inspiration to get back into photography after a few years of drifting away.

Oh yeah, there is a wooden bridge mounted on the left side of the back from a mid- '60's Guild 6 string guitar for a grip area, hence, Opus.

On re-reading what i just wrote, i think i would qualify as crazy. It's the image i'm after though, i'll do what it takes.

Bill Groff

[linas_kudzma1]

I�ve returned to this thread after quite some time has passed. The Bausch & Lomb-Zeiss 8x10 Series V Protar I originally asked about does not cover 8x20. It misses the corners by several inches. This lens has a focal length of 7 3/16" (183mm) as suggested by several posts above. I am soon to acquire a B&L 10x12 Protar V and will report on this for 8x20.

[linas_kudzma1]

I return again to update this thread. The 10x12 Protar V has a focal length of approx 210mm and my particular example just misses the corners of 8x20 at f64.