Which camera takes better photos and has higher resale?

[larry_vito]

Hi,

 

I am buying a 645 medium format camera and have several options but don't know

which would take better quality pictures and be easiest to use. I want the

camera for landscapes and nature photography. For most of the cameras I would

need to buy an additional wide angle for about $250-$300.

 

Option 1

Mamiya 645 Pro with 80mm lens, 220 back, waste level viewer, dark slide $450

 

Option 2

Mamiya 645E with 80mm lens and rapid pro pack $380

 

Option 3

Bronica 645C, 80mm lens, eye level prism $300

 

Option 4

Bronica ETRS 150mmlens, 75 mm lens, 40mm lens, eye level prism, 4 120 mm backs $450

 

Option 5

Pentax 645 80mm lens, 110 mm lens, 120 back, 220 back, eye level prism $450

 

As far as quality of photos, which company makes the best glass?

 

Anyone familiar with these cameras, please respond. I only have experience with

my old manual SLR.

 

Regards - Larry

[larry_vito]

I forgot to add Option 6

Mamiya M645 1000S Medium Format Camera with 110mm lens. $280.

 

Includes:

- Mamiya 645 1000s body

- Focusing Screen

- Metered Prism Viewfinder

- 120 Film Insert

[gaspar_homs1]

if you will do landscape and nature photos (insects, etc) i choose a pentax 645N or a pentax 645NII, are the most easy to use 645 cameras, both has a very well dumped mirror (645NII whith MLU), and SMC optics are very good, and also the zooms ones.

on the other hand, it has not a high value for resale.

[User_502260]

Allof these cameras and lenses will give you high quality results if they are used properly. None of them will have high resale value. You can see that by looking at how little they sell for now. Landscape photography is usually done with a tripod so handling is not tested very much. Nature photographty is different. The Bronica has lenses with leaf shutters built in. This limits their top speed to 1/500. If you need a higher shutter speed you should consider a different system. If your nature photography includes close-up or macro work then the systems are more even. You can get extension tubes, bellows units or macro lenses for all of them.

 

Pricest are lowest now for the Bronica medium format equipment. If the 40mm lens shown in the Bronica kit is too wide for some subjects you can pick up a 50/2.8 MC lens in good condition for $100-$125. For the money, Bronica equipment will allow you to do more things sooner. If you get the Bronica outfit make sure to add a Speed Grip. It makes using the ETRS a lot easier with a prism finder. You don't say whether the eye level prism finder for the Bronica has a meter or not. The advantage of the Pentax and Mamiya 645E cameras is that they have built in meters. This makes shooting rapidly a lot easier. If your subjects are not moving very fast then a separate meter will be fine.

 

The last consideration is the size of print you are looking to get. All of these cameras are 6X45 types. Up to about 16X20 you should find the image quality acceptable. If you plan to routinely make prints larger than 16X20 then you should consider a 6X7 camera. The 6X7 SLR cameras are larger, heavier, more expensve and more difficult to use hand held but they give you the ability to make larger prints.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

The Bronica is limited to 1/500 shutter speed. But you do get flash sync at all speeds - if that matters to you.

[larry_vito]

Great information so far. I have been using a 35mm OM1 for years, then digital point and shoots. I saw a book recently by Tim Fitzharris that got me interested in using a medium format or even 4x5. The 4X5 looks like it might be too much of a hassle and I was advised at a camera shop that the 6X7 cameras are too big and heavy for field use. They have a Pentax 645 there that I am considering. The Bronica /etrs has an "eye level prism", as of yet I don't know if it is metered.

 

Keep the info coming, I really appreciate it.

 

Larry

[gaspar_homs1]

larry, consider the pentax 645N, it is much control friendly than the older model pentax 645.

[a._t._burke]

Hello...

 

To see some actual un-retouched cuts of film taken through various medium format lenses go to the area noted below. The Mamiya 645 M1000S with the 80mm lens should be the first in line. Second row down, two in from the left (#7) is the Fuji GW670III a known excellent lens. Scans are only at 2900PPI but still show the different levels of detail/resolution.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00NCPL

[a._t._burke]

Opps!!! Should be:

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=730969

[nealcurrie]

I own Pentax645 system, and I'm pretty sure that there are no 80mm or 110mm lenses for the 645. There is an 80mm-160mm Zoom and a 55mm-110mm Zoom.

 

If you're interested to see differences between 645 and 67 at 16x20 print size, check out http://www.nealcurrie.com/t-comp0.html

[brucecahn]

Get option 7--Hasselblad or option 8--Rolleiflex.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Any of the medium format cameras that you've listed will be a huge jump up from 35mm. So don't sweat the decision too much. Jump!

[mark_schafer1]

If you're familliar with old SLR's why not consider a Pentax 67. The used market for Med.

Format has eroded beyond anybodies expectation, Pro's are kicking out their old equipment.

Also the Fuji 690 is a great camera. Otherwise , if you can deal with the layout of the

Hasselblad 500 system why not shop here, plenty of lenses and bodies, rental possibilities

and the quality of those are pretty hardcore and best of all you can get digital backs to work

o them as well(And i say this as a Mamiya RZ, H1/2, Canon 1DS 2 and occasional Sinar user).

best, Mark

[larry_vito]

Wow! Lots of great info. As i read your responses, it helps me make sense of the Steve Simmon's book on medium format cameras.

 

I should add that the Bronica ETRS does not have metered prism so that will add 165. to the price. I've l;imited my search to loally and found KEH prices comparitively high. Any suggestions on where lse to look?

 

6X7 is tempting, but those cameras are so h-e-a-v-y!! Especially on a 10 day backpacking trip over the top of the Sierras!

 

Larry

[gnashings]

In fishing, this is called trolling. :)

 

In photography, this is the kind of idiotic question that really doesnt merit an answer. But you guys are a kind, charitable bunch.

[xato]

OT to Neal,

 

Thanks.

You have posted a very interesting comparison. If we can analogize film grain to the megapixel race, the more megapixels, the better.

 

Back on topic, I would recommend the Pentax 645. All models have a motor winder and all models have a built in meter. The 75mm is very sharp. The 120 macro is one of the sharpest for medium format.

 

Warren

[nealcurrie]

I'm not sure if film area compares to the megapixel race, since most of the time, the megapixels are squished into the same area. If the megapixels increased on scale with sensor dimensions, I'd assume my comparison is analogous to digital pixel count.

[hakon_soreide]

6x7 cameras don't need to be heavy. Case in point: Mamiya 7. It weighs in at 2,5 pounds - and that's with the 80mm lens. It doesn't get much lighter than that.<p>

Of course, that is a more expensive system than the heavier alternatives, but I really love it.

[mawz]

Of those, I'd pick the Mamiya 645 Pro first, then the Pentax 645. The Pro offers interchangable backs and also manual wind (you don't need a drive for landscape), inserts are cheaply available (cheaper than Pentax inserts) and interchangeable allowing use of 120 or 220 in body. You'll probably want a prism, but the Waistlevel is rarish. Glass quality is pretty much even across the Pentax and Mamiya systems, the Pentax glass is more flare resistant and also Pentax offers more zooms, while Mamiya offers more leaf-shutter lenses and the fastest normal available (80/1.9).

 

I'd pick the Pentax for event work, or anything that involves quick flash work as the Pentax can use their widely available 35mm TTL flashes, while the Pro lacks TTL flash (and the Pro TL is limited to Metz SCA flashes or Quantum QFlash units)

 

However, if you're going to be on a tripod, I'd spend the money and go 6x7 instead. Almost twice the negative. 645's real advantage is for handheld/fast work, it's 35mm on steroids for handling, weight and features (AF, TTL flash, 1fps+ winders) while the larger formats offer quality at the cost of speed (and weight in some cases).

[john_bellenis]

For the combination of image quality and portability I would second the suggestion of the

Mamiya 7 - just astonishing lenses (some of the best for ANY MF camera) and incredibly

compact and easy to hike with.

 

If parallax isn't going to be an issue, and if you don't need interchangable backs, then it's

hard to argue against a smaller camera than the 645s mentioned, with a significantly greater

film area...

[mark_l3]

think about the future here, how about the mamiya 645 af? the lenses and bodies are really cheap, and if you want to go digital you can get the new and very affordable zd back. Mamiya will update the 645af to a 645afd for free with a zd back purchase.

[wayne_crider4]

I've always considered nature photography the realm of 300mm plus lenses and quick metering, and landscapes a minimum of 6x9 and above; Depending of course on output. The 645 is a nice compact system in MF format but stay away from waist level shooting if you want or need to shoot fast. The Pentax with auto focus would be better for nature and the lenses are top notch.

[PaulWhiting]

Unless I read the thread too quickly, there was only once mention of a Fuji, and it was a 6x9. I have two Fuji 645's, both with the fixed focal length of 60 mm. One is the GS645S, more of a manual camera, and the other is the GA645, pretty much full automatic, a MF 'point and shoot', as it were. I realize you didn't include these in your list, but they might be worth looking into. I'm very pleased with the results I obtain from these cameras. There's also a Fuji 645 zoom, but I was after a fixed prime lens.

 

'Course my all-time favorite MF is my Rolleicord IV, have had it since the 1950's!

 

As for resale value ... well, I'm getting resigned to the pretty dismal resale value of these cameras. Unless I live to be 100, and then they might become collectibles!

 

Just throwing all this into the mix... nothing like having lots of options to confuse you!

 

Good luck in your choice,

 

Paul