D200 with AI lens-shtter sound

[wchen]

I was trying a 28mm f2 on my D200. Everything went smoothly (metering and

display) and the lens seemed to deliver sharp pictues(I tried 20 frames or so,

full manual). The only thing that confused me was the shutter sound (that was

different from the sound of mirror flipping up and down, I guess) was much

much noisy than with my 50mm AFD and 24-85mm zoom. It seemed something hit

hard and the lens vibrated slightly.I hardly noticed this sound with AFs. No

funny I would think. When searching the PN, I found this thread

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00LOv2. So I tried to turn

the lens but it seemed to fix firmly.

 

Anyone had the same experience? Do old nikon lenses have a much noisy shutter

sound than that of AF on D200?

 

Thank you.

[ronald_moravec1]

I have 4 MF primes and they sound the same as my 18/70 DX except for the AF motor.

 

Check the diaphragm manually and see if it moves ok. That is the only thing different. Maybe some lenses muffle the sound better than others.

[ShunCheung]

I don't have the exact same lens you have. My closest is a 35mm/f1.4 AI-S. I just tried it on my D200 and the shutter sounds no different. I do feel a bit of vibration on the lens when the shutter fires, more so than what I feel when an AF lens is on.

[jay_chadney]

I have a couple AI lenses, and the first time on the camer, they sound very loud and there is a lot of camera vibration. After the first shot they are fine. There is a 50mm 1.2 at a store I am wanting, but it makes the same "chunk" sound on every shot, so, I may just stay away from it.

[lex_jenkins]

Fast lenses tend to have larger diaphragms - more moving metal. This could account for the difference in felt vibration. Also, AI and AI-S Nikkor diaphragms feel more stiffly sprung than those of AF and AF-S Nikkors.

 

I'm not familiar with the D200 but if it has a true mirror lockup option you might compare the felt vibration with and without the mirror locked up.

 

Gary Reese has noted in his tests of Olympus OM series and other lenses:

 

"Mirror and diaphragm prefire indicates that a self timer was used to raise the mirror and stop down the lens well prior to exposure, thus controlling two of the three major vibration sources in an SLR. Data from OM-1 tests (with just mirror lockup) typically show lower SQF grades, attributable to harmonic vibrations induced by the automatic diaphragm mechanism."

 

Again, I'm not familiar with the D200, but some Nikons, such as the FM2N and F3, will close the diaphragm to the chosen aperture before triggering the shutter when mirror lockup is used (which includes the self-timer on the FM2N). Just on the basis of felt vibration alone, this does make a difference.

[wchen]

Thank you all for your great messages. I checked the diaphragm and it moved effortlessly. Then I tried mirror lock-up with this 28mm AI and 50mm AF. When shutter fired the vibration was much heavier with 28mm AI than with the AF. So Shun has similar feeling. Actually, when I released DOF prview button, I also felt the same sound and vibration. Thus they seemed to come from diaphragm.

 

Maybe if I want to keep this lens I must live with the vibration.I just hope it is normal and does no harm to the camera.

 

Thank you again.

[bjørn rørslett]

The reason for the alleged difference could be as follows;

 

The stopping down of the aperture blades inside the lens can occur two different ways. What mode is used is determined by the lens (AF(S),AI; AIS etc.) *and* how the aperture is set (on camera or on the lens).

 

With an AF(S) lens people tend to set the aperture from the camera, the camera then controls the movement of the stop-down actuating lever inside the mirror box. This lever engages the corresponding mechanism of the lens. Note that the stop-point of the travel is "soft", since the lever normally won't hit the physical end-stop inside the lens. On most lenses the aperture ring is locked to the smallest aperture such as f/22 or f/32 and such small apertures are rarely used for actual shooting. This mode will produce the least exact aperture values so is to be avoided for time-lapse photography and similar, because you will experience exposure flicker.

 

If the aperture on the other hand is set directly *on* the lens using the lens aperture ring, the stop-point now is "hard" and is given by a solid piece of metal inside the lens. The actuating lever of the camera causes the lever of the lens to move until it hits the end-stop. Hence the sound. However, this method gives a [much]more precise aperture value so is the preferred one for time-lapse work.

 

It is worth underscoring again that it isn't lens model as such, but the way the aperture is set on the lens/camera system, that *might* produce different sounds (and vibrations). I suspect any difference will be felt more clearly using a light-weight camera model as well. I must admit I never considered this for my own work, since I basically always use heavy camera bodies and set the aperture on the lens (unless the lens is one of those darned "G" models).

 

I specifically did try different manual and AFS lenses on one of my D200 bodies using various methods for aperture setting (all these AI or AIS lenses have been equipped with CPUs so as to allow them to be fully compatible with any Nikon reflex camera). However, I would not say differences in sound were obvious on the D200. Rather the opposite, but direct A/B tests are hard to do unless you record the sound and quantify the intensity. My interest in the theme did not extend that far :)

[wchen]

Hello, Bjorn,I bought this lens since you gave it highest grade. I believe you are right in your review and here you have a clear and precise explanation for the sound. I am a newbie and was scared especially by it at last quiet night when I tried it:). So the vibration occures when the stop-down level in the lens hits the end-stop. Does it hurt the camera in the long-run? Thank you.

[bjørn rørslett]

Is the lens hurt by the stopping-down action? Absolutely not. It is part of the mechanical design.

 

You could ask whether the Earth is hurt when you jump :) It's all a question of mass and interaction.

[byron_delva]

Wenshu, I have the same lens and noticed the same difference in sound compared to my Nikon 50mm f/1.4. I just assumed that it was because of the metal barrel that is on the 28mm would transfer sound better that the plastic on the 50mm; but I think that Bjorn explained a lot better he knows his stuff.

[wchen]

Thank you, Byron. It is nice to know that you notice the same phenomenon.I feel a bit comfortable now with another victim :).

 

For Bjorn, if I was Kingkong...:).