Buying An Underwater Camera - Sea & Sea DX-1G VS Sealife DC600 6.1 - Or anything better...

[Sage7]

Hello!

 

I am relatively new to photography on dry land and I'm relatively new to diving.

Nonetheless, my passion for both is strong and I anticipate doing both for a

long time to come. With that said I'm looking into what would be a great

underwater camera system. On dry land I shoot with a Nikon D200. I love this

camera and I've recently invested a lot of money in it through lenses and

software. Now I don't mind spending money on something I love, however, I do

mind spending money unwisely.

 

My first inclination was to try and find a housing for the Nikon D200 I love so

much. However, after perusing the prices there's no way that I could justify

spending that kind of money on a housing when I could buy a completely new

camera system specifically dedicated to underwater photography. I can only

imagine that the reason that camera housings are so expensive is perhaps there's

a legality issue with what could go wrong and the manufacturer of the housing

being liable for the damages to the camera the housing is supposed to protect?

 

So what is someone with the heart of an explorer and a passion for photography

to do? Just keep buying tons of gear ;-( ?!? If I'm going to invest in a good

underwater camera I want it to be digital and I want it to withstand over time.

 

All that being said, I'm interested in the Sea & Sea DX-1G:

 

http://www.digideep.com/english/info/html/sea-sea-dx-1g-announced/

 

Does anyone have any advice and comments about this camera. I'm all by my

lonesome when it comes to buying an underwater camera. There's not much advice

out there (just a lot of advertisements) and I don't know too many

divers/underwater photographers yet. It's not just the DX-1G or bust for me...my

mind is open to good advice and other options.

 

Anybody have any good stories about positive experiences with certain equipment?

What do you recommend in terms of a camera that can shoot in a multitude of

different underwater environments and provide great pictures...take a licking

and keep ticking over time?

 

I'm also interested in:

 

Sealife DC600 6.1 Megapixel Camera Maxx Kit

 

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/15773/dc600-underwater-digital-camera/

 

The reviews for the Sealife DC600 all seem to be good on a cursory glance.

 

Could someone please provide me with you recommendations and comments...thanks

for your time!

 

All the Best!

 

Joseph

[david jeffery]

There are two types of underwater photography results. 1. is point and shoot with small stobe(s) that give acceptable results that you can share with people and there are many variations and all of the cameras you provided links to were in this group.

 

Professional cameras,lenses, housings with proper ports and large dual strobes. Having worked around underwater still photographers for many years until you get up to the professional level your shots will always seem to be lacking. I know of no great underwater photographers that don't have a big pile of dead professional quality strobes. If you want professional results you have a huge investment to make and fish are lousy subjects.

 

All that being said there are not many more colorfull and enjoyable places that you can be shooting than on a beautiful coral reef.

 

I'm not trying to discourage you. You should look at what the pro's use emmediately. Land based shooting the playing field is more level. Underwater you have to blast a lot of light, get very close to your subjects and shoot a LOT.

 

I'm just trying to save you from getting equipment that you will learn is just not good enough.

 

I hope you do go diving a lot as you will be rewarded on many levels!

 

Good Luck!

[Sage7]

David Jeffery,

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm leaning towards that same decision too. The one thing that tempted me about the two cameras that I mentioned above is the fact that you can see the image on rather large displays on the back of the camera as you're taking the picture. I guess I'll just have to learn but how do you look through the view finder with your mask on...all the mean while try to maintain buoyancy and keep your subject properly composed? Do housings have some sort of magnifying feature that enables a mask wearing diver to actually see what's in the view finder? Furthermore, the DX 1G has 10 mega pixels...with the capability to shoot in a RAW format. Do you think it puts out lower quality images than say a Nikon D200 in a housing?

 

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of buying an underwater housing for my Nikon D200 and make the investment. Do you think that's a good idea and what types of housings/accessories would you recommend and why? From what I've read it seems that lenses between 10mm-200mm is optimum. Do you agree with that? What kind of lens domes would you recommend...I've been told that an 8" lens dome is good for those really cool simultaneous underwater/over water shots, however, you may have to get a diopter for it? What should I look for in terms of ports? Aside from recommending a housing, I was curious if you could recommend any types of lighting/strobe rigs.

 

Can you see I'm at that dangerous stage where I want to just jump into the water shooting, but I can't being that I don't know anything yet and I don't want to blow my money on a compulsive purchase that I'll regret later...

 

Thanks for your time.

 

All the Best!

 

Joe.

[david jeffery]

"Can you see I'm at that dangerous stage where I want to just jump into the water shooting, but I can't being that I don't know anything yet and I don't want to blow my money on a compulsive purchase that I'll regret later..."

 

Congratulations Joe!

 

You haven't jumped in a bought gear you will need to replace soon and my have saved yourself thousands of dollars. Take your time and do some research.

I am not up to speed on underwater still photography gear as I used to shoot video.

A freind shot stills and used to have large dome ports made, and we would take them out into deep water and test them before putting the camera in the housing. I remember one test we did where we put wieghts on the empty housing and slowly let the rope out. There was a quick tug on the rope and the line became heavier which indicated the the port or seal had blown out.Pressure test!!!

The underwater housings have a magnifier for the viewfinder. I built a small 4" TV into a housing with a custom battery pack and never used it much because the optics on the housings were so good.

All pros used dual strobes and they seemed to be the biggest problem for everyone. Lots of dead strobes around.

I know no one that has ever seen or heard of one of the ports that the control arms go through leaking but always test housings empty.

O-ring lube does not make the seal so use very little - just enough to keep your o-rings dry.

 

I really like a lot of Ikelites products. I put a $3,200.00 camera in an Ikelite plastic housing for four years and never had one single problem. The housing used to make a lot of creaking noises starting at about 150 feet and there were times I thought it would implode at 220 feet deep but it never did. It was rated to 130 feet. Ikelite is a great company to deal with and Gates is at the top qualtiy and price wise.

 

If you dive deep you will get bent - be careful and make sure you have DAN insurance.

 

I have been away from diving since 2000.

 

My friend used Ikelites primarily and he has shot many dive magazine covers. Once you start diving below 180 feet then aluminum housings become necessary and most people I knew used the Tussey housings. For below 200 feet Gates video housings are the best.

 

The capture ratio of good shots underwater is probably one tenth of that above water.

If your diving safety is not your primary concern you will become a statistic. I pulled a 20 year old out of the water that died, one person can't dive again after getting a light case of the bends, another diver I know was found floating off the coast, a guy I dove with had the bones in his shoulders die and had plastic shoulder joints put in, and I would not be writing this if I wasn't familiar with inwater decompression. I have walked out of the chamber twice. Take care of dive safety first.

 

You'll have a blast!

 

Dave Jeffery

[vandit]

I would venture that getting a decent P&S with RAW mode, such as a Canon G9, would be a

very good way to start. You can slowly build up this system, add strobes and work on

your diving as well as photography skills. If you buy good quality strobes, you can then

migrate them to use with a housed DSLR as well.

 

A DSLR, while certainly more flexible, may not be the right thing for someone starting out.

It adds drag, which will affect the development of your diving skills. It increases task

loading, both out of and in the water. And it is a specialized tool, forcing you to select

your subject beforehand... which may not be appropriate for someone just starting out.

 

Another factor to consider is - where will you be diving? Locally or on trips? If on trips,

consider the fact that if you have a housed DSLR, photography becomes pretty much

*the* driving force on your trip. Not to mention weight allowances, etc.

 

Given that you've just started diving, I think trimix diving (which is what I assume 180 ft +

would be these days.. or should be, at any rate) is a bit far down the line. At recreational

depths, polycarb housings work quite well. With a decent macro and WA adapter, a good

P&S will give you top-quality results as well, and with a less less complications. At this

stage in your diving, that is a very good thing.

 

Check out http://www.photosafariindia.com/articles.html -> click on the article on the

S70 + housing. It gives you an idea of what you can do with a pretty basic, entry-level P&S

kit.

 

Dont get me wrong - I dont have a problem with housed DSLRs (that is what I use). I

simply think that starting with one may not be the appropriate thing.

 

Vandit

[richard_t_rsleff]

Hi Joseph,

 

I have only underwater experience from using my old Nikonos 2+3, but I wouldn't rule out

the Sea & Sea DX-1G quite yet, especially when compared to the Canon or other non-SLR

options: I actually just got one for myself, my first digital UW camera. On land (without the

housing) it performs very, very well, in fact it is an identical (rebranded with a UW mode)

camera as the much acclaimed Ricoh Gx100. It has the widest angle lens in its class

(equiv. to 24 mm), with the option of adding an extender to obtain a 19mm. It has great

macro. Both these aspects are of importance to UW photography. (On the NIkonos I use my

20 mm mostly). The UW housing has a provision for using the in-camera flash for fill

purposes. It has good ergonomics, even with the housing, and it is a very compact and

easy to bring along option (just like the Nikonos). With a housed SLR with dome port and

strobes you have a very heavy (on land) and complex (below surface) set-up.

 

In a month I will test the housing on a trip to warmer waters, but my impression of the

camera is very favourable so far.

 

Good luck

 

Richard

[richard_t_rsleff]

I should add: The Sea & Sea DX-1G shoots 10 Mb Raw (Adobe DNG format), and it accepts

external strobes should you progress in that direction.

 

The extending lens (Sea & Sea's own make, it fits on the outside of the housing) hasn't been

reviewed yet, but from the product shots it seems to be a very large lens attachment,

possibly off-setting the balance of the camera, so beware!

[david_cullen2]

There are two major issues regarding underwater photography. The

first one that everyone has covered here is to get enough light

onto the subject. You can do this using additional external strobes,

whether you go for the Sealife or for a housing for a DSLR. Many strobes

will move onto your DSLR housing later if you choose to go for the

compact camera first and then upgrade later.

The second issue is one that is only relevant to compact cameras and

that is shutter lag. Many manufacturers don't even print this because

the values are so bad. I've been using an Olympus mju410 in underwater

housing and most of the pictures i've missed have been due to it

taking a full second after pressing the button before it shoots!

From what I read, the new Sea&Sea cameras have the best performance

regarding shutter lag, though some of the sony's also claim 0.15 second. Beware, some manufacturers claim good performance, but

don't mention that they're twice or even four times

as slow when using flash!

[Sage7]

All,

 

Thank you for your responses. I've just returned from the Great Barrier Reef and had some great dives. I noticed that the photographers that were on board the dive boats utilized Nikon 40s with underwater housings similar to Ikelites. However, the Sea & Sea DX-1G seems like a great camera for reasons mentioned above. The Canon G9 was the most recommended camera being that a lot of divers have had access to this camera.

 

I rented an Olympus u770SW and although the display was so faint I could barely see it even in the darkest conditions it took pictures that were acceptable to remember the places we dove and snorkeled. Beggars can't be choosers, and I'm certain that the camera was in the condition it was in not because it was of poor quality, but because it was being rented on a daily basis to transient divers who were exploring the Great Barrier Reef.

 

I thought that the post about starting simple and concentrating on the safety of diving was a good call. However, although I'm not yet like Jacques Cousteau, I do have relative confidence diving under water. Therefore, there I do have a desire to continue to focus toward utilizing my D200 (which is becoming more an extension of me every day) with an underwater housing.

 

However, I am still attracted to the simplicity of a great camera, such as the Sea & Sea DX-1G, to have a dedicated underwater camera. In fact, being that the prices are so expensive for underwater housings, I'm very tempted to lean in that direction. However, I'm still loyal to my camera and it's something that I?m getting to know and understand so why not continue my learning with this camera under water? Well, one reason is the price?decisions, decisions, decisions?

 

I did want to add to this forum the following resources which I'm finding to be great resources:

 

"An Essential Guide to Digital Underwater Photography" by Michael Aw with Mathieu Meur & "An Advanced Guide to Digital Underwater Photography" by Michael Aw with Mathieu Meur

Both of these books are simple and to the point and have provided a wealth of understanding for the beginner like myself.

 

Again, thanks for all of the replies?you have all provided great counsel and I'm still weighing my decision on what to buy.

 

All the Best!

 

Joseph D. Sage.

[craig_macfarlane]

<p>Dear Joseph,<br>

I read your questions and the responses that you attracted with interest; I'm in much the same boat, looking at buying a Sea & Sea DX-1G or Sealife DC800, but also toying with the idea of buying an Ikelite housing for my Nikon D80. I am interested to know what you eventually decided and whether you are happy with it? My inclination is also to start simple and cheap, rather than spend $5000 on strobes, cables and housings, and end up with 5kg of kit to lug around both above and below water. I would be very keen to know if you made the same decision but then regretted it?<br>

Kind regards,<br>

Craig Macfarlane</p>

[karldecker]

<p>Hi Craig,<br>

I find myself in a similar situation...trying to decide how much I should personally stimulate our economy by buying an underwater camera and/or housing. Actually, I bought a Sea & Sea SX-1000 housed SLR over 10 years ago and used it on over a 1000 dives. It was not the most advanced system, but I didn't spend much for it. Anyway, I eventually got tired of hauling the 75 lb. pelican case around the globe with me only to return home and find that some of the images didn't turn out. <br>

I have recently become more interested in travel and portrait photography. However, I still occasionally enjoy shooting underwater here in Florida, and, like you, I have been looking at the DX-1G and DC800 cameras. The DX-1G accepts a wide (16 mm) conversion lens which is great for diver/reef shots that I like to do. I heard that there were communication problems between the camera and YS-100, but hopefullly the YS-100alpha strobes will take care of this. Overall, the DX-1G is a better camera with minimal shutter lag and more flexibility.<br>

<a href="http://stephenfrink.blogspot.com/2008/07/beyond-point-and-shoot-sea-and-sea-dx.html">http://stephenfrink.blogspot.com/2008/07/beyond-point-and-shoot-sea-and-sea-dx.html</a><br>

As you know DC800 is much cheaper than the DX-1G, but may not make the grade in terms of image quality, response and ruggedness. I guess I'm leaning toward the DX-1G. <br>

Best wishes,<br>

Karl Decker</p>

[karldecker]

<p>The DX-1G camera is essentially (without the viewfinder) a ricoh Caplio GX100. Here is an extensive review.<br>

<a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricohgx100/">http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricohgx100/</a><br>

Best wishes,<br>

Karl Decker</p>

[karldecker]

<p>Actually, I don't know if the DX-1G has an electronic viewfinder or not...the original ricoh does. In any event, once it is in the housing only the LCD screen can be used for framing shots.<br>

Karl Decker</p>

[craig_macfarlane]

<p>Hi Karl,<br>

Thanks for the feedback and links. The other option that I'm thinking about is the Olympus 6000 or 8000 Mju "Tough" with their respective housings. The external lighting options look rather limited for these; in particular, the way the flash is mounted seems very close to the top of the camera and likely to cause significant backscatter; but I would appreciate your, or anyone else's, feedback on the Olympus compact cameras for underwater photography.<br>

The Sea & Sea DX-1G is looking like the right choice at the moment.<br>

Craig</p>