Loaded Sheet Film and Airport Carry On X-Ray Machines

[andre_noble4]

For convienence sake, thinking of loading up the first batch of sheet film (B&W, Trannies, IR) at home, before international flight. But I wonder if the x-ray damage will be more because of x-rays bouncing off the metal in the holders (as opposed to leaving film in boxes, and loading afterwards? Andre

[merg_ross]

There has been a great deal of concern on this matter as not all

airports have the same x-ray equipment. I would suggest having the

unloaded film hand checked and loaded into holders at your

destination; then unloaded and hand inspected on your return.

[c._w._dean]

On a recent international flight, film was fogged that went through

the carry-on scanning machine despite written and verbal assurances

that it was safe. It was not important film but it won't happen

again.......

[jonathan brewer]

When I take film out of the country, I will ask that it be

handchecked, and sometimes the response will be 'yeah, yeah, yeah,

just move along, It'll be ok'. I've even been told 'if you film is

not 1000ASA it can't be fogged'.

 

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I will tell them that I insist on my right to have my film

handchecked and several times they respond with giving me the

'treatment'. That is, since I've made them actually work for their

money, they decide that everything I've got needs to be searched.

 

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I don't care, I willing to go through this because I have had my

film fogged in the past by machines. Has C.W. or anybody else ever

been given the treatment?

[marcus_leonard]

This is a very annoying situation. In my experience US airports are

better than the European ones, especially the Paris and Amsterdam

security officers seem to have no idea that film other than 35mm

exists. Perhaps it would be an idea to set up a site with reliable

film vendors abroad. One could contact them before embarking on a trip

to see if the film needed is available. The same for processing labs.

What do you think about it?

 

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Marcus

[andre_noble4]

Dear Respondents: I just read a December 14, 2000 post on same issue

as my original question. Lots of concerns about air travel with film

and risk for damage via x-ray. One good solution in that post was to

mail your sheet film home Via UPS or Fed EX, DHL, etc.

 

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Question now is : Does anyone know if these packages get X-rayed as

well, or is it that since they go via a courier company's cargo jet,

there is no x-raying involved? Andre

[bruce_pollock1]

Does anyone still make the lead lined film bag that I bought 25+ years

ago for this very purpose? I'm not sure if there are current

suppliers, but it's a plastic coated, lead lined device about the size

of a lunch bag. You used to also be able to buy it in sheets and

"gift wrap" your film prior to travelling. Mine has carried film to

such exotic locations as Fort St. John, BC and Prince Edward Island

without fogging by airport x-ray machines.

[edward_kang]

There's no physical reason why x-rays would "bounce" off metal and

somehow cause more x-ray exposure to film in film holders.

 

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It's just not how x-rays work.

 

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There's already an article on this site that states in no uncertain

terms that 400 speed 4x5 film has been handchecked several times

through carry-on x-rays with no adverse effect on exposure.

[michael_feldman1]

Maybe I am mistaken, but "handchecked through carry-on x-rays" is not

what was said. "Hand checked" means that it did NOT go through the

xray machine, but was visually checked by security.

[dave_willison]

The effect of airport x-rays on film is an age-old question.

Interestingly, however, I've never seen any testing or controlled

experiments to fully examine the effect of x-rays on specific types of

film stored under varying conditions. It seems like a fairly simple

test provided that you could access the equipment.

 

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Has Kodak or any major film manufacturer conducted and published any

tests? Are there any serious LF shooters who work in airports or who

have access to airport security equipment? Anybody willing to take

loaded filmholders down to the airport, walk in and out of security,

process the film, and report results?

 

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I realize this seems a bit silly, but the reseach question/hypothesis

seems basic and answerable with a straightfoward test.

 

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.....................................

[michael_kadillak3]

Avoid the whole mess and get a lead bag for your sheet film to and

from your destination. My brother who lives in Tokyo brough me back 2

boxes of Fuji 5x7 Velvia (20 sheets each) in a Hakuba X-Ray safety

case DX IN HIS CARRY ON BAGGAGE. Dimensions are 80mm W x 165mm L x

180mm H. It is rated safe to ISO 1600. However, on the back of the

bag there is a warning "Be sure to put your films into your carry on

baggage when you board a plane." "Never put films them into air

cargoes for even highly resistant X-Ray protective pouches cannot

avoid film exposure from the more powerful CT scanning."

 

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Hope this helps.

[john_sarsgard1]

In many European airports there is nothing you can say or do to get a

hand inspection. However, in US, we are entitled to it. I go early

in case a security person does not want to cooperate and I have to

insist, or ask for a supervisor. In other parts of the world, I have

found that I can carry lots of 4x5 sheet film in pockets of a jacket

or vest and just walk thru the metal detector with them. Never sets

it off.

[rob_tucher]

As for FedEx and others x-raying, I asked FedEx when flying back from

Puerto Rico and shipping my exposed 4x5 separately, in two split

packages set for delivery on two different days, whether they x-ray.

My answer was that they could not confirm or deny that they use x-ray

as a security measure. But both shipments arrived when the were

supposed to unharmed and unfogged. Whether this is the case always is

completely up in the air. Buying where you are going is the best, if

available. Having it snail mailed by a supplier to meet you (with

enough lead time to make sure it is waiting for you) is second best

but nerve-racking because you know how often they get it wrong.

Shipping it yourself to your hotel or whatever is ok, but you don't

know about x-rays. Visual inspection of carry-on unopened boxes works

but is a royal pain when you encounter employees who don't know

anything. Loaded film holders is a no-no. Not only can they get

x-rayed or opened without your knowledge, but they tend to draw in

dust in rarified air, or more likely when returning to ground from

rarified air. Coming home is the worst because it is more precious

and is also more at risk for many reasons. For this reason I

sometimes process where I am and take home safe, stable negatives, but

this is not always possible.

[edward_kang]

To Mr. Feldman and others, I urge you to read the articles on this

site:

 

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I carry all film (usually four boxes or so of 8 X 10) in a separate,

smaller carry-on. There are probably not many traveling photogs who

have not heard about the new CAT scan technology being used in some

airports to screen checked in baggage, which will screw up your film.

So I always carry it on, or, if needs be, do a gate-check (which has

already been x-rayed as carry-on, so should get no further scanning).

As for carry-on x-ray: I�ve traveled with sheet film in Asia, Africa,

Europe and the Americas, and have just never had a problem. The

fastest stuff you�re going to get is ASA 400, and everyone I have

talked to says it�s just too slow to be harmed by the regular carry-on

x-ray machines. There�s enough minor hassles involved in traveling

with LF, so do yourself a favor and skip the headaches of asking for

unnecessary handchecks, when you know that they�ve never seen film in

flat boxes before and are going to insist on opening them up: "Not

film! Film not flat! Film in rolls! Dog must smell! Talk to supervisor

now!" I cheerfully send $300 worth of film through an average of 7

x-rays on every trip, a lot of it in pretty dodgy places, and at this

point I do it absolutely without a worry. I�ll update this, with

specifics, if my experience changes!

 

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(nathan congdon)

 

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original text at:

 

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http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~qtluong/photography/lf/travel/lftravel.htm

l

[michael_feldman1]

I think there is confusion about the various ways to get film through

airport security. Here are the ones I am aware of.

 

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1. Checked Luggage - Relatively high powered x-ray used to search for

explosives.

2. Carry-on Luggage - X-ray'ed on moving belt machine.

3. On-your Person Fixed Position Metal Detector - Checks for metal as

you walk through the security checkpoint.

4. On-Your Person Hand Operated "Wand" Metal Detector - Used by

security to closely check your body with the "wand" metal detector.

5. Visual Check by Security Personal - Also known as "hand check"

(not hand carry). Does not involve the use of any machine. Apparently

not available in most countries outside USA.

 

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So let's be very specific about which one we are discussing and which

can (or cannot) cause problems. Personally I believe that when

someone tells me that an x-ray machine may harm ISO 3200 film, but

not ISO 100 film, I take that to mean that it will expose all film to

some degree, but they don't think you will notice it.

[qtluong]

So far I have had no problems with getting hand inspection of

loaded holders in the US. I tell the personal to hold them by the

side to prevent accidental opening. They've been careful and

considerate. I used to carry my film boxes on me under clothing,

(all retaped) but on a recent trip where I carried eight boxes I

couldn't do it, and asked for hand-inspection. No problem either to

my surprise (this was on 6 different flight segments).

They just use a particle detector and swipe them to look for

explosives.

[qtluong]

Marcus and others: if you send me the information, I'll be glad

to post it on a LF page article.

<p>

Regarding Nathan's article, his experience is typical I believe.

There was

an article by Howard Bond about a trip to Europe where he measured

with a densitometer the amount of exposure received by the film.

After several X-ray runs, he found it to be less than 1/10 of a stop.

However, "typical" is not good enough for me. Not all X-ray machines

are the same. You always take a

risk. I've been burned, so I am not willing to do it again if not

necessary.

[stephen_ratzlaff]

To answer your question about whether X-rays will damage film. Yes

they will, there is no disputing this. In addition, it is an

accumulative effect (i.e. the more times the film is x-rayed the more

damage is done) so one trip throught the machine may not have a

noticable affect, but pass it through several times in the course of a

trip abroad and your film is screwed.

 

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BTW, I just returned from a trip abroad and could not have my film

hand inspected at Gatwick in London. After repeated requests to have

it hand inspected they just flat refused. Yes, they do have signs

posted that the x-rays will have no affect on the film, but this is

pure bullshit and don't you beleieve it.

 

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Unfortunately, both directions, we were rushed to catch our connecting

flight (due to the crapy layout of the Gatwick airport) and also of

course due to the poor air traffic control and poor ground traffic

control at Gatwick.

 

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My suggestion is to avoid the British airports at all costs if you

value your film. If at all possible, try to get a flight which is a

direct connection to your international destination from here in the

U.S.

 

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I've had no problems within the U.S. getting film hand checked, but

international is another story.

 

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Regards

 

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SR

[andre_noble4]

O.K., seems like Carry-on Luggage X-ray (on moving belt machine, at

gate) is not as potentially harmful as I thought based on Nathan

Congdon and other posts. (I had incorrectly thought that the new CAT

scan type x-rays are being used here - but apparently, they are only

being used for checked baggage. It is a no-brainer not to put your

sheet film there).

 

<p>

 

Because of the uncertainty over whether courier companies (DHL, Fed

Ex, etc.) x-ray packages sent to them for air travel (and what type

of x-ray, if any they employ) shipping film via such courier is out

of the question for me.

 

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The most elegant solution, when possible, seems to be to stuff the

film in a pocket and walk through the security check point. Not only

is your film certain to be safe, but you get an adrenaline rush to

set the tone for your upcoming travel adventures.

[peter shier]

I highly doubt that FedEx, UPS, etc. use damaging x-rays (at least

with the US). I have ordered plenty of sheet film from B&H and others

that has been delivered by FedEx and there has never been a problem.

[jonathan brewer]

Micheal

 

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I've up to now taken rollfilm through security and customs. Since

I've moved up to LF where can I order the Habuba x-ray safety case?

How much does it cost?

 

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Ciao

[michael_kadillak3]

Jonathan:

 

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I wish I could give you the costs and the purchasing information on

the lead film bag. My brother purchased it in a store that

specializes in professional equipment at my request when I asked him

to bring the 5x7 Fuji Velvia back to the US. On the back of the bag

it says - HAKUBA PHOTO INDUSTRIES CO., LTD. If you would like, I can

ask my brother the name of the store. You might check some of the

larger internet/mail order houses here in the US. I have to believe

that they have a similar product that would be capable of holding a

box or two of 4x5 or even 5x7 film.

[michael_kadillak3]

I found the HAKUBA lead film pouch at the B&H website under the film

section for $20. It was rated at 1600 ASA.

[alpshiker]

It's definitely safer to carry film in the hand checked luggage. Even the X-Ray gate should be safe for low

speed films. The lead bags are not a good idea any more. The operators of CT scans will push the machinery

to see what's in there. I had asked B&H (1999) about the safety of shipping companies some years ago and

here is what Henry Posner, Director of Sales, replied: "We have never experienced nor has any customer

reported any difficulty whatsoever with film sent from B&H to an overseas location."

[michael_feldman1]

Paul, What is meant by �hand checked luggage�? Many of the posts

above have said that for international travel, hand checking of

luggage is not an option in most places outside the USA. What is an x-

ray gate? Is that the metal detector you walk through or the moving

belt machine that x-ray's your luggage?

 

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It is certainly possible that FedEx and other airfreight companies do

not x-ray packages from known shippers with established accounts (B&H

Photo, etc.), but might x-ray (high intensity x-ray designed to spot

explosives) for a package shipped by an individual. The original

subject of this thread is how to get film to and from international

travel locations. The idea was that maybe you could ship your exposed

film home after a photo shoot, rather than have to deal with airport

security.