What flash should I get?

[johnv]

I need a flash for various purposes, mostly portraiture. I had 580EX but sold it

because I never used it but now things have changed and I need a flash for those

times when available light is not enough. Also, I want to start using fill flash.

I use an EOS 5D and already have the STE2 (I use it to aid focus when its dark)

so you would think it was obvious for me to get the 580EXII flash but since I

never got used to using this flash and my results were not that good I have been

thinking that I should consider a powerful Metz or Quantum flashes.

I figure I need the power so that I at times can bounce the light.

 

I have read this article (you need to log in)

http://shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc031.htm where they mention the Canon 580EX,

Metz 76mz, Nikon SB800, Quantum T5d and Metz 54mz in that recommended order.

The Metz 76mz seems to be the most powerful flash but is it also the most suited

for my needs?

 

I am thinking that an additional advantage of getting an off brand flash is that

it will more easily work on different brands of cameras. In the future I might

get a Nikon or a medium format camera.

 

In addition to the flash I need a battery pack and I will be getting a light

meter ? probably the Sekonic L-758.

 

Any suggestions on what flash I should get or where I should educate myself

further in order to make an informed decision?

 

John Valliant Lauritzen

http://www.photo.net/photos/John_Valliant_Lauritzen

[cham]

I could tell you where to get information on flashes but i'd get shot on here... i don't think they link people posting links to the site on here... but anyway to answer your question...

 

it all depends on how much money you want to spend... if you want to spend the money on a 580 II then go for it it's a great flash unit. it really does depend on what you are planning on doing with it though...

 

if you don't need to use TTL the have a look at the vivitar 285HV (although you'll need to trigger it another way) which is a great flash and many a "strobist" are using these right now. Or you could get a nikon SB-26 or SB-28 which are fairly cheap and these will fire with the st-e2 but you can't use ettl with them either.

 

if you need the ettl then you can always get a 550ex or 430ex a lot cheaper than the new 580...

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Take a look at www.strobist.com for tons of ideas.

[johnv]

Thanks, I appreciate your feedback. I don't consider the 580EXII to be out of reach. Also, I know that if I ever decide its not for me I can resell it easily with very little loss. What I want is something that is as flexible as possible, even if it costs more than the 580EXII. The Metz 76mz is about 900 USD I believe and that is probably without the battery pack.

 

I'll check out www.strobist.com and see if I get any wiser. Thanks.

[picturesque]

How are you going to use the flash for portraiture? As off camera or on camera flashes, or both? If on-camera and for fill flash, I would say the Metz 76 and Quantum T5D start to get big in comparison, plus need external packs. If that doesn't bother you and you really need the extra power (for fill flash that is questionable unless shooting groups against bright sunlight), then OK. The T5D isn't all that much more powerful than the shoemounts and the zoom head on the shoemounts does make a difference in efficient use of the flash energy. For bouncing, most shoemounts of the same guide number as the 580EX work fine, given high ISO is great on the 5D. For weddings, ISO 800 and even higher work just fine. The T5D has a parabolic reflector and can be used bare bulb. Slightly different kind of light pattern and quality compared to the shoemounts. The Metz 76 has a big enough head reflector that the quality is similar but the fall off is more abrupt than a parabolic flash head pattern.

 

Actually, the shootsmarter article lists the Metz 54MZ-4 as the top all-around choice, but it does address the problem a lot of people have getting used to ETTL (original and II). People used to auto thyristor flash and especially flash with film seem to have a really hard time "getting" ETTL. I have a 580EX and it is fine with my 20D and 5D, but you have to test and work with ETTL to be able to use it successfully. Some people find using auto thyristor is better for them. Unless you get the 580EX II, you won't have the auto thyristor option, and even with the 580EX II, auto thyristor is not fully integrated with the 5D--only with the new 1DMkIII and possibly the 40D. If you are going to use the flash in manual mode for ultimate control anyway, any of those flashes would work fine.

[johnv]

Thanks, Nadine. I will be using the flash for portraiture a lot but really for a lot of things, both using fill flash and bouncing the flash. I think I will be using the flash on camera most of the time ? but then again, I might want the flexibility of using it off camera as well. I?m not sure how I?ll be using my flash but having good manual controls will probably come in handy once in a while. I don?t know anything about the light from theT5D bulb ? how it works in a different way. I just know that I didn?t have much success using the 580EX the little I used it. Setting a higher ISO did make the light from the flash less harsh, through. Ideally I would have the opportunity to try out different flashes before buying but unfortunately this is not possible.

[johnv]

Does anybody have any knowledge to how effective the secondary reflector (fill light) on the Metz is? How much added flexibility does this give you?

[Ian Taylor]

I use the Metz 54 series flahes all the time. Just put it on 'Auto' and fire away. I've just got one of the new 580EXII flashes for HSS and will be getting more to go wireless.

<p>

I've never used the little fill on the Metz.

[johnv]

Thanks, Ian. How does the 580EXII compare to your Metz? Everything points in the direction of just going for the safe bet i.e. the 580EXII. I like the lighting and colors on your photos, btw.

[picturesque]

Well--the effect of making the flash less harsh by raising the ISO is due to the fact that more ambient light was part of the exposure and less flash, so the flash pattern was less noticeable. As for the second reflector--it is nice in some situations involving bouncing the flash off the ceiling where proximity to your subject or low ceilings cause shadows in the eye sockets of your subjects. For general use, and at distances, the effect is not even noticeable. So it is a "nice to have" for certain situations, but not a "necessary".

 

A parabolic reflector has a softer fall off light pattern. The shape of the pattern is circular. Some people use this fall off to accomplish what is called feathering of the light. This is often used in portraiture but nowadays, more with the edge of an umbrella modifier. Bare bulb is another kind of lighting that is sometimes used in outdoor portraiture, especially to mimic sunlight, and indoors to create almost shadowless lighting. A parbolic reflector is also said to have a somewhat nicer light quality than the small reflector-ed shoemount flashes.

 

Recommending a particular flash from among your suggested ones is difficult because you haven't really specified (this isn't a fault, necessarily) how you are going to use the flash other than "for portraiture", bouncing and fill. Any of those flashes will do fine for those things, you just have to work with them and your camera so you understand how to apply that knowledge to your situation. In other words, your stated purposes don't definitively rule out any of them. And each have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

I own a number of Metz flashes, both shoemount and handle mount (although not those particular ones you mention), and I have a 580EX and Sunpak 120J (a parabolic reflector flash). Metz flashes are nice flashes--usually well built and designed. The handlemounts are worth it if you need the extra power, otherwise, the size is somewhat cumbersome when used as an on-camera flash out in the field. A parabolic reflector flash is nice if you would use it--otherwise, the full integration of a Canon flash to Canon bodies is a plus. The hybrid capability of the Metz 54MZ or 58AF-1 is also a plus--the auto thyristor ability is more automatic than Canon's own 580EX II's auto function (with your 5D)--but would you use auto thyristor? And as I said above--some people have trouble with ETTL.

 

If you do want to go for the safe bet, you are right--the 580EX II is safe, and if you re-sell it, you'll probably recoup most of your money. Maybe back to the pen and paper to make a more definitive list of how you are going to use the flash?

[johnv]

Thanks so much for your thorough response, Nadine. Now I have a much better idea of what I'm looking into. Its hard for me to know exactly what I want because I don't like flash light in general - especially not when the flash is positioned next to the lens and pointing directly at what is being photographed. And yet if this effect is used in an extreme way it can become interesting, as the light smashes into what is being photographed. However, in most circumstances this is not what I want. The very diffused studio light used in the fashion industry does look nice but I haven't seen anything handhold that comes even close to this kind of light and even most, simple studio lighting looks terrible in my opinion. I usually very much dislike flash light when the flash is mounted on the camera, this includes fill flash that is easily noticeable. To me this kind of light looks artificial in a way that becomes phony.

 

Another problem using these flashes is that there is no pilot light so that I can't see how the light will fall on a persons face or how the shadows will look (this is important to me). For these many reasons I've pretty much staid clear of flash until now but things have changed and I now need to invest time to learn how to use flash. Sometimes there just is not enough light where I'm shooting.

 

To answer your questions I would probably use the flash as little as possible and bounce it as much as possible. I really don't know if I would be using auto thyrister but as far as I've understood bouncing is easier using TTL so I would probably not use it very much. I have a feeling that I would try to expose normally or almost normally and just use the flash to lighten things up a bit - make the object stand out from the background. I do know I would use whatever is the easiest to learn and that gives me the results that I want (knowing that this is not necessarily the same).

[picturesque]

Bouncing with auto thyristor is not more difficult than with ETTL. Based on your last sentence, though, I would be inclined to get the 580EX II. The 5D's custom function 14 allows you two methods of accomplishing flash metering. You can read all about it in the article on EOS flash at photonotes.org/eosflash. In any case, evaluative flash metering will automatically reduce fill flash when the ambient light is at a certain brightness level and higher. Averaging flash metering won't automatically reduce the flash--you would do it yourself. The 580EX II would be the best in this case because of the complete integration with the Canon body. Metz's units emulate ETTL, as well as Quantum's, even though the emulations are extremely good. Some of the other units might be better for off camera use, when the flash is the main source of light, or in other situations, but the 580EX II can successfully handle other situations as well, if not ideally. You can also read the article at planetneil.com, under techniques, about using on-camera flash.

[johnv]

Thanks again, Nadine. Looks like I?ll be getting the 580EXII since it does seem to work without any compatibility issues and it will do the job most of the time. I'll probably have to test different settings to see how I like using the flash. Also thanks for the link. I might get a Quantum or a Metz later on if I feel I need more power in some circumstances - or just as a second off-camera flash.

[Ian Taylor]

Sorry, I've been on the road and couldn't answer your question. I think the Canon is probably a better unit, but I haven't really had a chance to use it much. I've just been bouncing it as I don't have a Stofen or Fong LS for it. The Metz go for cheap used ($200) and at that price they are great.

[johnv]

Thanks, Ian. That makes me more sure about my decision. I'll be getting the 580EXII mid November.