50mm lens for Canon 1Ds

[tomasz_widlak1]

Hello :-)

 

I spent some time today looking for a "normal" lens to compliment the 1Ds I'll

be buying soon and there is so many choices I figured I'll ask around on the

forums, I'm sure some of you will have lots of helpful information :-)

 

What I'm looking for is 50mm lens with beautiful bokeh and "character" so

preferably f1.0 or 1.2 and older design. I was browsing through KEH and Ebay

and the lenses I'm considering are Nikon 50mm 1.2, Olympus 50mm f1.2, Minolta

50mm f1.2 or Contax 50mm f1.4 with approperiate adapters. Total resolution,

sharpnes or faithful color reproduction are not the most important things for

me, I know that Canon 50mm 1.4 would give me all that. I'm looking for this

special "something" that lenses like Noctilux give, this special kind of look

and great look of OOF parts of image. I've never used any of this lenses, or

any non Canon 50's for that matter so any opinion would be appreciated,

especially if it would come with some images as well to illustrate the point :-

) I don't want to spend more than $500, if there are some other alternatives

please let me know.

 

Oh, and I don't mind focusing manually and using stop down

metering...............I always shoot my 85mm f1.2 wide open anyway :-) Here is

an example of nice OOF qualities that I like so much, Canon 30D and 85mm @

f1.2 - <a href="http://www.tomwidlak.com/85f12/"

target="_blank">http://www.tomwidlak.com/85f12/</a>

 

Thanks,

Tom

[les]

"Canon 50mm 1.4 would give me all that." - if you get a good copy. I keep hearing the tales of exquisite image quality of the 50/1.4, but so far I failed to find one which would beat 24-70/2.8 at the same aperture (from 2.8 down).

 

Canon seems to be capable of making good glass - but the deviations in quality are not funny at all. My 50/1.4 is used mostly for macro (reversed on 100mm macro lens).

[james_sigle]

The bokeh or out-of-focus detail is the result of the DOF and the shape of the apeture. Your 85mm f1.2 will continue to have the same OOF in the full frame camera that it does on your crop camera. An EF 135 f2 will be even better, but there is no 50mm that can equal a longer lenses bokeh. Most modern lens designs have iris blades that are rounded to give more pleasing bokeh than older designs.

 

Jim

[Spearhead]

Tomasz, you have some terrific photos, much better than the ones with the 85mm, on your web site.

[tommyinca]

Under $500, you may want to check Tomioka 55/1.2, Nice bokeh at the expense of some resolution. Also Check Fujinon 50/1.4. Both are in M42 mount. There is also the Minolta 58mm (not 50mm) f1.2 but like the 50mm Rokkor you will have adapter issues that you must first solve (flange to film too short).

[mr. sullen]

"normal" lens? I guess you mean prime lens. "bokeh?" is subjective. From what I've learned so far I guess canon puts out some good lenses for "bokeh" whatever that is. "I don't want to spend more than $500" Isnt the 1Ds like a $5,000 camera? Why wouldnt you want to spend just as much on a lens?

[jay_lang]

Well the 85mm you have is just an awesome lens. The 50mm f1.4 is good and great value. If you want L series build quality then the 50mm f1.2 is great but expensive.

 

I use the 135mm f2 L alot and that a very sharp lens and great value for an L.

[tomasz_widlak1]

Leszek, I got good copy of 50mm and it works well, but there is nothing special about it. Hence the search for more :-)

[tomasz_widlak1]

James, I prefer Noctilux bokeh to 85mm f1.2, hands down. I'm looking for a glass that will give me amazing bokeh, a specific look............"character" if you will :-)

[tomasz_widlak1]

Thank you Jeff, thank you very much :-)

[tomasz_widlak1]

Tommy, I will check that lens, thank you. You don't have any pictures taken with it by any chance ?

[tomasz_widlak1]

Shay, to quote after dpreview: "In 35mm photography, lenses with a focal length of 50mm are called "normal" because they work without reduction or magnification and create images the way we see the scene with our naked eyes (same picture angle of 46?)."

 

1Ds is a $2000 camera but unfortuneatly there is no $5000 "normal" lens for it so I guess I'll never be in photographic heaven :-) Thank you for your input.

[tomasz_widlak1]

Jay, Canon 50mm f1.2 is nice but out of my budget for now. From pictures I see on the net it's either Zuiko 50mm f1.2 or Nikon 50mm f1.2 unless someone will point me in some other direction.

 

Looking for images from Tomioka 55/1.2 now :-)

[derek_stanton2]

Hi, Tomasz.

I've been in this same situation. I tried the Canon 50/1.4, Canon 50/1.2L, Nikkor 50/1.2

AIS, Leica-R 50/2 Summicron, and Pentax SMC 50/1.4. After all that, i kept only the

Canon 50/1.4.

 

I was trying to get away from "the Canon look" but in the end, there were too many

concessions to make in using the other lenses.

 

1. I don't know if it was the fault of the adapters or my eyes, but consistent, critical focus

with the non-Canon lenses was problematic. Even when using the adapters with focus

confirmation. The Canon shots were just sharper.

2. Re: Bokeh - The Canon was as good or better than the other options, on a consistent

basis. When one of the other lenses did do something nice in this area, it usually wasn't

repeatable or applicable to other situations, and/or the effect wasn't so much 'better' as

just 'different.'

3. The 1.2L lens had potential. But, i tried three different copies of it, and my 50/1.4 beat

it in terms of sharpness. If you don't mind losing that sharpness edge, i do believe the

50/1.2L's bokeh is very nice. But, as you mentioned, out of budget.

4. I did not try the Olympus, although it was on my list of possibilities.

5. I have previously owned a Contax-N 50mm 1.4 Planar, and liked it, but i don't think it's

any better than the Canon, and the bokeh effects can sometimes be quite similar. From

samples i've seen online, of manual focus Contax lenses, i wasn't intrigued quite enough

to go that route. But, had i continued looking for a non-Canon 50mm, i might have tried

the 50/1.4 or 1.7 manual lenses. But, again, the consistent focus issues deter me.

6. I have not liked ANY of the new Zeiss-F 50mm image samples i've seen. Horrid bokeh.

7. If i had to place a bet, i'd wager the current Leica-R 50mm Summilux ROM E60 would

be the ticket. But, once again, out of budget.

[danielkennedy]

For consistent focus with a manual lens below F/2.8 it's a good idea to replace the focus screen on your 1Ds.

 

The stock screen shows the same DOF for every aperture 2.8 and below, that is a shortcoming of the matt stock focusing screen.

 

A split prism centre with microprism collar focusing screen is a huge help (haoda and katz eye do these) but can cause "blacking-out" of the microprism collar at f/5.6 and up.

 

If you're going to stick with the canon screen you need eagle eyes to focus the really fast manual normals, since you have to nail the centre (or what is it, 1/3 in front 2/3 behind?) of the in focus area for what looks like an f/2.8 DOF.

[tomasz_widlak1]

Hi Derek :-) Again I see we look for something similar :-)I had the same experience with manual focus lenses when trying Contax 85mm f1.4 on 5D, many many shots were simply out of focus, that's why I got Canon 85mm f1.2. As it turns out it was fault of 5D not being great for manual focusing, at least not for me. Canon makes special manual focusing screen for 5D, I've never tried it but I guess it would help a lot. The reason I blame 5D is that when I was testing 1Ds I had a chance to use Contax lens again and to my suprise I had no problems, all the images were perfectly focused! That's why I'm looking for an old manual lens with "character" now, without the "Canon look" :-) I did some research and based on other users opinions and pictures I could fidn on the net I came up with three lenses that I think would suit my needs:

 

1. Nikon 50mm f1.2:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/groups/nikkor50s/pool/show/" target="_blank" >LINK</a>

2. Zuiko 50mm f1.2:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiwibirch/tags/zuiko50mmf12/show/" target="_blank" >LINK1</a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyoshima/tags/f12/show/" target="_blank" >LINK2</a>

3. Pentax SMC 50mm f1.2:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/fuctupfactory/tags/pentaxsmc50f112/show/" target="_blank" >LINK1</a>

 

I'm trying to find some pictures done with Tomioka 55mm f1.2 that was recommended to me. So many choices :-)

[tomasz_widlak1]

Daniel, I was playing with Contax 85mm f1.4 on 1Ds that I was testing and I had no problems focusing. I was shooting in bright light and contrasty subjects but this is mostly what I shoot. When I will get manual focus lens I will surely try manual focusing screen for the times when light is not so great. Thanks.

[JDMvW]

I use a Nikkor-S 55mm f/1.2 on Canon EOS cameras, and I find it very satisfactory. It was always a manual focus lens, so only the stop-down aspect is at all troublesome; and I usually use a Canon AF 50mm lens if I am interested in shooting at less than full aperture anyway. It surprising how much difference that 1 f/-stop can make in really dark conditions. Of course, the flip side is that narrow depth of field means extra caution is necessary in focusing.

[derek_stanton2]

Hi, Tomasz.

From your samples/links, i completely understand what you're looking for. It's all very

'evocative' and 'atmospheric,' and the opposite of 'technical.'

 

I'm sure any of those options will work. I'm intrigued by your comments about the various

focusing screens, and how the 1Ds should be better for manual focusing than the 5D. I

had very odd experiences with MF and the 5D. Even using the confirmation adapter, i

could get, in a sequence, a) in focus; b) slightly out of focus; c) in focus; d) WAY out of

focus; e) slightly out.... All under the same (testing) conditions. Bizarre.

 

I believe what i was looking for was a bit different. I wanted that dreamy bokeh, but with a

very sharp in-focus point. I couldn't get that with the Nikkor or Pentax. The Nikkor 50/1.2

AIS ? my copy (i went through two samples) could not give me an acceptably sharp image

until i stopped down to f2. At 1.2 and 1.4(?), the images suffered from the same 'halation'

issues as my Canon at 1.4. But, i wasn't trying to shoot the kinds of cinematic scenes you

show above. I kinda wanted it for a different purpose, and the softness was a distraction.

 

I also have re-evaluated things recently, in terms of what i want to shoot and how. I sorta

fell in love with the whole selective focus/bokeh thing. But, recently, when i looked back

at my favorite images throughout history, by all of my favorite photographers, there

weren't many if any that really relied on super-shallow DOF. So, [gasp] i'm actually

stopping-down a li'l bit now....

 

I wish you luck. And, i hope you'll share the results of the search. I may revisit the pursuit

later. I REALLY wish Canon would fix its 1.2L lens. That piece of glass has/had so much

potential.

[matthias_meixner2]

Here you can find comparison-shots for different lenses, e.g. EF 50 1.2L and EF 50 1.4:

 

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=403&Camera=9&FLI=0&API=1&LensComp=115&CameraComp=9&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

[tomasz_widlak1]

Derek, I had exactly the same experience with 5D, some images in focus, some OOF even with focus confirmation adapter. After that I dropped whole manual focus lens idea and moved on. It was recently when I was testing 1Ds when I had a chance to use Contax lens again with the same adapter and images were in focus, all of them. Then I found the manual focusing screen made for 5D <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/402221-REG/Canon_0830B001_Ee_S_Super_Precision_Focusing.html" target="_blank" >LINK</a> and this info on Zeiss new ZF lenses page: "Quite a few digital and analog cameras are already well equipped. The standard focusing screens of the following camera models are well suited for manual focusing:

Canon: EOS 1D, 1D Mk II, 1 D Mk IIn, 1 Ds, 1 Ds Mk II, 1V

Nikon: D2X, D2Xs, D2H, F6" and figured that maybe is the standard focusing screen in 5D at fault, not the lenses. Anyway, I'll try out some lenses and see how it goes. Ultimately I would love to put Noctilux on 1Ds as this is the ultimate bokeh and "character" lens for me and it has exactly the look and feel of image that I love so much, well ilustraded here: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyoshima/tags/noctilux/show/" target="_blank" >LINK1</a> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/barryphipps/tags/noctilux/show/" target="_blank" >LINK2</a> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/moaan/tags/noctilux/show/" target="_blank" >LINK3</a> I fell in Love with it after a short fling we had and I will proppobly end up buying one if I won't fine a great 50mm for 1Ds................why I can't just be normal? :-)

[tomasz_widlak1]

Thank you Matthias for the link, unfortuneatly I'm looking for qualities that are "very 'evocative' and 'atmospheric,' and the opposite of 'technical.'" as Derek nicely described it. I don't care for ultimate resolution or uniform sharpness.............I'm looking for this dreamy imperfect look that Noctilux give or as close as I can get to it using DSLR. See the links in the post above.

[John Crowe]

I also don't think you can mount the Minolta. The Nikon 50/1.2 and Contax 50/1.4 are certainly easy to find and fairly inexpensive. I have no answer for you but perhaps the older Nikon 55/1.2 may have what you desire. Also note that there are several variations of the Nikon 50/1.2 and each may have it's own character.

 

 

For Nikon lenses Check out Bjorn's site at:

 

 

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html

[JDMvW]

Wait, do you HAVE the Noctilux? If so, buy a Leica to EOS adaptor and shoot away. If money were no object, ...

 

Unfortunately, for a 'luminous' effect the Nikon lenses are pretty well coma corrected, especially the 58mm f/1.2 Noct-Nikkor. My 55mm f/1.2 may be your best bet since it's the most 'primitive' of the f/1.2s from Nikon.

 

I don't know how 'luminous' this desktop picture is, but it shows a little of the bokeh of the lens at least.