Metering for White Wed Dress

[karen_kaner]

Hi All,

 

I was wondering what most of you meter off of when shooting at a wedding.

Is it the skin of B&G the B's dress?? Should I increase EC on camera if

metering off the dress. I don't want to have the dress be blown & loose detail.

I have a "favor-shoot" for a small not real formal wedding. The ceremony will

be outside and with the info that I received, the vows are in light shade.

The rest of the photos will be taken in the shade & sunnier part of the yard.

 

I don't think the groom is wearing a tux- So not sure on the color of the suit.

 

I was planning on using a flash for the ceremony for fill- correct me if this

is the wrong thing to do. I like the evenness of shade lighitng but sometimes

it's too dark/flat etc. I don't think at the time I will be shooting it will

be dark shade but light shade with some sun filtering down through (at sides)

or tree coverage. (which is why I was thinking fill flash)

 

Any last minute advise to help me loose the pre-shoot jitters would be great.

IE: what to meter off, flash considerations to not blow out the dress etc.

 

My advise to myself was to "run-fast" so that option has been covered. Now I

need the real pros to help me. I just want to do a nice job and not spend the

next 8wks in PS trying to fix stupid mistakes!!!

 

I do shoot in RAW- so I know I have a pinch of wiggle room???

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

Karen

[conraderb]

Karen - it is pretty easy. Watch the histogram. you want the dress to be nice a bright without 'clipping' it - aka blowing out the highlights.

 

here's a quick and dirty way to get what you want - take a very overexposed picture and see how your highlights (probably) blink on the histogram view. now, reduce exposure so that the dress blinks just a little bit. now reduce exposure by about 1/3rd or 1/2 of a stop, and that should be a pretty good way to dial it in.

 

I check my histogram every time I'm shooting in new lighting conditions (eg. every time the sun comes out or a cloud covers the sun) and every 15 or so frames after that to make sure my settings are locked in.

[karen_kaner]

Thanks Conrad- I got what you are saying about the exposure/histogram/EC reduce etc. But, what is your initial metering point? When focusing on the B/G, are you sport metering/eval/Ctr Wt? And is your point of meter 1st off the dress or grass or skin of persons- what would you suggest as a start point of metering- Exp Lock on the dress then recompose and shoot???

 

Or are you telling me, just take a shot of the dress, check H-G for clip if needed, adust EC - 1/3 or 1/2 and rest of the toanl range will fall into place with a correct exp. ie: skin/grass/flowers etc?? Also, since I'm pretty sure I will need some FF is there any setting I should consider for that as well- I have the 580EX and it has HS synch. Or should I leave that off. I was under the impression that the HS synch is used for "fill" from my manual-

 

Sorry for all the last minuter ?'s but I use my flash minimally and don't always have mostly White detail area to fuss over. I also have a flash bracket/sync cord to use to get the flash from directly over the lens.

[william-porter]

Karen,

 

Conrad has already given you the practical answer. (I learn a lot from his posts myself!)

 

Let me just add a general note that may help you remember what he said. You need to understand how your camera's meter works.

 

The meter always tries to balance the available light and produce a result that's neither dark nor light, but just right. If there's a lot of light, the meter is going to worry about overexposure, and therefore it is going to suggest that you compensate by increasing shutter speed or stopping down the aperture. On the other hand, if the scene is more than normally shadowy or dark, the meter is going to worry about underexposure and so will suggest that you slow down the shutter and/or open up the aperture (or adjust the ISO). Put more technically, the meter always tries to get the exposure of the entire scene to average out at 18% gray -- a mid-tone gray.

 

You can and should test this for yourself. Get yourself a nice big white posterboard -- or a white wall. Set it up where you've got some nice clean light (so you don't confuse yourself with white-balance issues), and make sure that the white wall or board is filling all or most of the shot. Now, take a shot with no exposure compensation. Look at the shot. The wall will NOT be white, it will be definitely off-white, dingy, dark or tending toward downright gray. Next, add +1 or +2 of exposure compensation, in other words, ask the camera to overexpose by one or two stops. Take the shot again. NOW the wall or the posterboard will look white.

 

Back to the problem at hand: the white wedding dress. In order to keep that beautiful dress from looking like it's dirty, you may need to adjust the exposure compensation UP by some amount, per Conrad's suggestion. The camera always wants to serve you luke-warm water, so if the water starts out hot, it's going to add an ice cube to cool it down a bit. If you actually want to have hot water, you need to tell the camera to put a little hot water back into its calculations.

 

On the other hand, if you're photographing the groom and his groomsmen and they're all wearing dark suits, you should compensate in the opposite direction -- set -1 or -2 stops of exposure compensation, to keep the black suits or tuxes black.

 

That's the basic idea. There are pitfalls, however. First, what if you're shooting the bride and the groom together? Answer here, I think, is favor the bride. The majority of the data captured by your camera is on the highlight end of the dynamic range. You'll find it easier in post-processing to pull the shadows down (darken them) than to pull the highlights up (lighten the bride's dress). So favor the bride. This is sometimes called "exposing to the right of the histogram." Just be sure you don't blow the highlights. If you push the exposure well to the right, but don't actually blow any highlights, you can fix things very nicely. But whatever you blow out, well, truly blown highlights are not recoverable. Learn to read your histogram -- and I recommend also that you turn on the feature in your camera that shows you blown highlights and shadows with blinking colors.

 

And what if the bride is not a prominent part of the photo? Well, here you have to think about what your meter is responding to. If you're using spot metering, you can meter on the bride's dress, even if she's only a small part of the photo. If you do that, then you would want to add +1 or +2 EV, as explained earlier. But if you're letting your camera meter the entire scene, and the bride's bright white dress is only a small part of the scene, then don't worry about it. Assuming that the rest of the scene isn't white, too, the camera will try to achieve a balanced exposure for the entire scene. And if the bride's dress stands out as brighter than the average area of the photo, well, it will stand out in the final photo, too.

 

Hope this makes sense!

 

Will

[djphoto]

For a quick and easy way to determine exposure, read the lightest, brightest part of the dress and open up two stops. Check your histogram and adjust as needed.

 

Dave Jenkins

[william-porter]

<p>Karen,</p>

 

<p>I'm not sure you understood Conrad's advice. Here's what he said:</p>

<blockquote><em>take a very overexposed picture and see how your highlights (probably) blink on the histogram view. now, reduce exposure so that the dress blinks just a little bit. now reduce exposure by about 1/3rd or 1/2 of a stop, and that should be a pretty good way to dial it in.</em></blockquote>

<p>NOTE CAREFULLY that, when he says you should reduce the exposure, he's assuming that you're starting with a clearly overexposed shot. He's trying to show you how you can dial the shot back down.</p>

<p>I was saying the same thing, but the way I put it was slightly different. I assumed that you start with the camera's idea of what's a normal, nominally correct exposure -- middle gray. Then you ADD +1 or +2 stops of EV—or whatever amount of +EV works.</p>

<p>Put a bit differently, say the problem is that you want to get a cup of water that is as hot as you can stand to drink without burning yourself. Say you know that's about 110 degrees. Conrad's advice is to start with a cup of boiling water and add ice cubes to the cup until you get to 110. My advice is to start with luke warm water and add a little boiling water until you get the temp UP to 110. Same result, and same idea, just a slightly different approach.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>By the way, don't worry too much about the skin, if you're shooting the dress. Remember what I said, that there's more data at the highlight end of the dynamic range than in the darks. Expose for the dress and you'll be able to darken the skin tone a bit if you need. Expose for the skin, however, and you'll have trouble lightening the dress.</p>

[conraderb]

karen - to get an exposure reading to start with, point camera at subject, make sure the meter is on (usually pressing the shutter button halfway does it) and then look at where the little arrow is pointing. it might say +2, -2 or 0 or anywhere in between.

 

adjust your f-stop and shutter settings so that the arrow points around "0". this will be a generally good place to start for an average scene.

 

yes, you are right - if you have a scene with lots of different light and dark things, you can meter the dress and everything should basically fall into place. to do this, walk up to the dress, zoom in so you see ONLY white, and then dial the exposure so that the arrow reads +2 or something like that. do a quick check to make sure that the dress isn't clipping on the histogram - at +2, it should not.

 

back up and shoot with the same exposure set - and things should look pretty good.

 

btw, I suggest that you shoot in manual "M" mode - it makes this much easier than trying to lock in an exposure with an automagic setting.

 

William porter's advice is good as well - you can start from 'normal' exposure and go up.

[pete_s.]

Karen, you don't really state how you meter or with what metering method and exposure compensation is used in the automatic modes. This is a good introduction regardless of camera make:

http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/feelnikon/discovery/workshop/kumon/08e.htm

[kiva]

Meter the brides face.

[toddcwilson]

Another approach you may want to consider is setting your camera to spot metering, setting the exposure lock on the brightest part of the scene (brightest area of the dress in this case), and letting the fill flash take care of the rest of the exposure. I'm not sure what camera you use, I use a Nikon D200 and it is easy for me to switch from matrix the spot metering on the back of the body. If you have a body where this is a cumbersome process then I suggest Conrad's approach.

[toddcwilson]

Sorry, meant matrix 'to' spot metering. You get the point though.

[karen_kaner]

Wow guys, thank you all so much for the info. I came back to my computer and had all this great advice!

Peter, I see what you are saying about the EC-- (used in auto modes)

 

Actually I shoot a lot in AP mode and can use the EC as needed. I don't use any "P" modes. Usually 'AP' or 'M'. (Unless AP is considered to be in the auto family.)

I understood both other posters as well, as for adding +1 +2 more exp. I kinda figured it was like shooting snow.

 

I try to use 'M' more & more when I am shooting my usual subjects and have time. So AP plus EC dial & watch the SS etc is what I have been used to doing. I know I need to get quicker with my equipment when shooting 'M'. When I refer to EC in 'M'mode, I'm thinking in terms of if I get a reading right in the middle -0- in 'M' I then would change my SS to obtain + 1 or 2, ie: mving the meter notch to the right a few spaces.

 

I know that I'm just nervous. I know how to use my camera for most any subjects and how to get a good exposure. It just seems that when I'm under pressure and there is no way to "go back" and try again it puts a whole new spin on things.

I want to go in with the best confirmed knowledge that I can and occasionally check the H-G to see that all exp is where it "should be"-- so to speak.

 

Using camera flash is another "mess my whole world up thing" too.

I'm a natural light shooter for most of my subjects but have been working on using strobes etc so that I can be much more versatile in my photography & comfortable when doing it. Especially when timing is crucial!!

 

 

Is this anxienty normal for Newbie Wedding shooters? LOL!

[william-porter]

AP? Is that the same thing as Av?

 

Yes, shooting a bride's dress is like shooting snow, more or less.

 

As for nervousness, this is natural -- but that's why you absolutely must practice before the event. One of the very best things about digital photography -- from the photographer's perspective -- is that it costs nothing to practice. So you should be shooting lots of test photos. Get someone into a white dress, or at least into a nice white shirt. Practice shooting in different kinds of light, with each or your lenses, with different camera bodies if you have 'em, and with flash and without. When the time comes, you will need to be able to respond without hesitation to the challenge.

 

Good luck!

[picturesque]

I also suggest metering the subject's face (bride or anyone else) and if they are Caucasian, add (open up the aperture) about a stop and a half, more or less if the skin is darker or lighter than normal. Also, don't use aperture priority indoors. It will set too slow a shutter speed.

[ned1]

I always carry a small incident meter. Very useful at times.

[karen_kaner]

Yes William, I meant AV- I just put the initials as how I say the 2 words-- 'Aperature Priority'... why do they call it AV anyway??? Great idea about having someone wear mostly white for practice.

Thanks for all info/suggestions.

[steve.elliott]

Either get a handheld meter and measure the incident light (rather than reflected light). This means the meter won't be fooled by a light dress or dark suit. If the background is bright however, it might be best to meter for the background in-camera and use fill-flash.

 

Or meter from the Bride's dress and over-expose by a stop or so (+1) then check your histogram and make sure it doesn't clip the highlights.

[steve.elliott]

...in bright sunlight over-expose by +2.

[cjogo]

If you don't carry a hand meter---just meter the white dress and place that 2/3 -- ( 2 ^ ^ ) up from the middle...manual exposure of course --don't over flash

[cjogo]

If you don't carry a hand meter---just meter the white dress and place that 2/3'rds up -- ( 2 ^ ^ ) -- from the middle...manual exposure of course --don't over flash > that's the secret.

[viet_ngo]

Karen, Av is for Aperture value I believe, same for Tv, which is a Canon thing.

As for the OP, I'd suggest using spot metering in your camera, meter the dress if you want to preserve the highlight for it, or the bride's face as other suggested. I used to carry a sekonic, but not anymore unless I have to work in very difficult lighting condition.

[karen_kaner]

Thanks all, I will bring my light meter- and start with that. I'm going to get there early so I will hunt out somebody in white and use both meters to see how much they differ in readings- check H-G and add

+1 +2 exp. as needed. Thanks!! I practiced today on a friend that had a white dress shirt on. I put him in the sun and shade- H-G readings were pretty much even across the board. Ending just at the right side.

 

Then when I tried with the flash, Whoa- not so good... I set the button to the high-synch FF mode and tried to adjust on my own but

it took a while to get a decent exp. This is where I'm very slow to get the correct exp. is when using Flash to help in the shadows.

 

I used the camera with flash & without in both 'M' and 'AV' to see how the shots looked.

I'm off to practice with the flash some more and pray to the cloud Gods for some nice overcast diffusion for about 20min while the ceremony commences. LOL!!!

[toddcwilson]

Also, if you are really uncomfortable consider bracketing. Explain that you will take a series of 3 exposures and bracket +1 -1.

[mike_senesouk]

Neil, you know from Planetneil.com, (did you think I was going to start of with, Karen?) Anyway, he calls it "The Boob shot". (I like the way he thinks)What he does is put the camera on the boobish area and use the setting from there as how he taught us. He explains it better on his site.

 

http://planetneil.com/tangents/category/flash-photography/

 

Towards the middle of the page.

[picturesque]

Realize that in aperture priority camera mode, the camera will always try to use an exposure that it thinks is correct for the ambient and if the flash is turned on, and you have the flash metering (custom function 14) set to evaluative, the flash will be cut based on the amount of ambient light that exists. This will happen in manual camera mode too (if using flash in evaluative) but with manual mode, you can control your ambient exposure via the choice of shutter speed. I personally use a handheld incident light meter, but I don't always use the settings right off the meter. I use the handheld because that's what I learned with and find it much faster than camera metering. However, if I were to use camera metering, I'd use the spot or partial meter on the face, and figure out a method that will work consistently. As long as a method works consistently (metering face, dress, etc.), use it.