New Holders for 12 X 20: Recommendations

[nathan_congdon]

New holders in 12 X 20 run close to $500 (AWB). I'm getting three from Wisner together with a 12 X 20 camera, and am therefore getting a better price. One thread archived here suggested that the Wisner holders might not be the best choice. Leaving $ aside for the moment, anybody have personal experience with the different new wooden holders available for the larger film sizes(Great Basin, AWB, Wisner, etc.)? Anything to recommend or stay away from? Anybody used the vacuum holders (Hoffman, I think)? Is film flatness really a practical issue, assuming you've got the film plane in the right place to begin with? It ought to be by sheer gravity, but I understand film flatness tolerances become less critical as format size increases. How about in the real world of 12X20 and up?

Thanks as always for your thoughts!

 

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Nathan

[geoffrey_chen]

Have you tried Lotus View? They sell for 368.60 (euro, about 325 US

dollars). Ask Burkhardt Kiegeland (bkiegeland@weisserlotus.co.at). I

have seen his work. Simply impressive!

[david_f._stein]

Weight. Cost. Control of film positioning. Why not devise a single-sided cassette system a la Readyloads for these mega-formats, even if it takes a slightly smaller usable film area, that would save enormously in investment in holders; weight out in the field and produce better results. I challenge our best-know designers (Lotus, Wisner, et al) to think outside the holder.

[dan_smith]

The Lotus holders are very nice and seem to stay light tight very

well. I have only heard good things of AWB and Great Basin, but have

not used them. I have used the lotus holders. Not only do they work

well, but they look nice also. And, after two years of use, including

High School students using them a lot, they still work just fine.

[steve_nieslony]

The Lotus holders (as others have noted) are very nice, and witht he

currency exchnage make a good buy. Beautifully finished in Cherry

wood, good solid workmanship. These are the holders that I use on my

7x17 Korona. Now... I was very impressed with the Lotus holders until

I saw the work that Alan does (AWB), and his holders are the equal if

not better then Lotus'. What sets Alan aside is that he will make the

holder to order and in the wood combination that you desire. His

Canham holders in Black Walnut are just simply beautiful.

 

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One thing to note about Great Basin holders is that they do not have

a flap with tape on the one side. One slides the film in the groves

and then bends the film so that it goes under the lip. You will note

on the web page that the holders have larger opening to slide the

film in... this accomodates the fact that you have to bend the film

etc... to slide it under the lip. The system works and hey... you'll

never have to replace the 'tape'.

[mark_parsons1]

Nathan - In 12x20 I only have experience with Alan Brubaker's

holders, but that experience was the best possible. He is a

meticulous craftsman. I went to his place and left my back with him

so he could build a holder to fit my camera (not all older 12x20

cameras take the same size holder) and he did an exemplary job. It

fits perfectly and the back-to-film distance is the same on both

sides to within a thousandth of an inch (out of curiosity I took a

mike to it). I asked him to try and match the finish on the camera

(a deep reddish brown) and he stained it to a perfect match. None of

this would matter if it didn't function properly, of course, which it

does to a high degree. First, my tests show that the holder holds

the film in perfect registration with the ground glass. Second, even

though I have left film in the holder for days at a time and hauled

it all over (in full daylight) I have never had it leak even the

tiniest streak of light. To the best of my recollection I paid

approx. $400 for my holder (direct from Alan) maybe three years ago,

and in my opinion it was worth every penny. (No, I don't have any

connection with AWB - I'm just another happy customer.) All this and

he seems to be a heck of a nice guy, too! Highly recommended.

 

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As far as film flatness, remember that in the landscape position (90%

of most 12x20 use) the film is only 12" high, which is only 2" more

than an 8x10 in portrait position (which doesn't seem to present much

of a problem for 8x10 shooters). In fact, the extra width of the

film may even add a stiffening effect. In any case, as a practical

matter I have never experienced out-of-focus effects in the center of

an image due to film sagging. Be advised that most of my photos are

in landscape orientation with the camera reasonably close to level,

front to back (or maybe with a bit of upward tilt.) I can imagine

that if one were shooting at a steep angle downward on a very hot day

there might be a flatness concern, but I have yet to experience it.

 

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Cheers!

[sol_campbell]

Can someone please supply a web page or contact information for AWB

or Alan Brubaker? Thanks!

[mark_parsons1]

http://www.filmholders.com/

[chad_jarvis1]

Good luck getting ANYTHING in a timely manner from Ron Wisner,

especially if he, personally, is taking care of it. He still owes me

a Copal #3 mounting flange and a brass aperture plate (from an order

that should have been filled in May). I warned him that if he didn't

take steps to appease me and to accomodate his customers in a more

professional manner that I would take every opportunity to share this

information with his prospective customers. It's not that I have a

problem with his knowledge or his products or his experience; I

don't. But his customer service skills leave much to be desired, and

to avoid frustration on your part, I would recommend going elsewhere

(such as Lotus) for your materials.

[david_f._stein]

Weight. Cost. Control of film positioning. Why not devise a single-sided cassette system a la Readyloads for these mega-formats, even if it takes a slightly smaller usable film area. This would save ENORMOUSLY in investment in holders; weight out in the field and produce better results. I challenge our best large format minds to think outside the holder.

[struan_gray]

One intriguing idea for a home-built setup that cropped up on Usenet

and have I tucked away for a rainy-day project was to turn the inside

of a ULF camera into a changing bag, with armholes or even

glovebox-like tubes into the interior. You store a whole a box of

film inside. Instead of a film holder you slide in a planar surface

with some sort of clip at the top and/or edges, and simply remove a

sheet of film from the box and put it into position (having closed the

shutter of course :-).

 

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This might not be practical with wide angles, but since the only

lenses I can afford for ULF are longish process lenses that's not a

problem for me.