Large format camera and lens selection

[mike_malone]

After studying most of the large format cameras and lenses currently on the market, I have come to the

conclusion that the format and camera that best suits my needs as a landscape photograher is the Canham

MQC 5x7 all metal field camera (which I plan to buy within the year). One of the reasons the 5x7 appeals to

me is that this format comes very close to the same rectangular ratio as 35mm, which is how I am used to

"seeing", and I prefer this ratio over a more squarish format such as 4x5. I compose photographs to match the

lens I am using, and my prints are usually printed full-frame (no cropping). With 35mm photography, 95% of

my landscapes end up being shot with either a 24mm or 50mm lens. When I get set up with large format, I want

to continue with lenses equivalent to the 24mm and 50mm. With 5x7, this would correlate to lenses of about

110mm (or 120mm) and 240mm. From what I can tell, the two lenses in this size that appear to offer the most

versatility (coverage, speed) and quality are the Schneider 110mm f5.6 Super-Symmar XL and the Schneider

240mm f5.6 Apo-Symmar. I am interested to hear from anyone who shoots 5x7 and has experience with these

two lenses, and I would like to know if there are any other lenses in this size range that should be considered

instead. Also, would a center filter be necessary, especially with the 110mm?

[kcrisp]

Mike: You may find that you see differently with a view camera, and

the lenses you think you need from 35 mm don't necessarily work out.

At least that was my experience. I am using the Schneider 110 and it

has plenty of coverage for 5X7. When I bought it (Badger graphics)

and asked that question they told me it would cover 8X10, which I

haven't personally confirmed. No need for a center filter with this

lens in my experience. My 240 mm lens is a 1967 version of the

Schneider G-Claron and its performance has been excellent. I'm sure

the Schneider 240 you mention is just fine. Though I have a good

selection of lenses for the 5X7 outfit, I seem to end up using my 180

more than half the time, which I wasn't anticipating. Have fun with

it. The Canham sounds like a terrific camera from everything I've

heard.

[armin_seeholzer]

Hi Mike

 

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I would prefer the APO Rodenstock N 240 mm has only 2mm smaller

diameter 350mm at f 22, Schneider 352mm at f 22, but it is a tic

sharper then the Schneider!

Good luck!

[robert_pellegrino]

Mike if your making the transition from 35mm to a view camera, have

you considered an Arca 6x9 F-line camera. With it's compact size and

ability to use various format roll film backs you can choose a 6x9

format (basically a 1:1.5 aspect ration i.e. same as 35mm) or a 6x7

back with an aspect ratio similar to 4x5, or even a 6x6 back for a

1:1 aspect ratio. I currently use an Arca 6x9 F-Metric with 6x7

backs, this route into view cameras made the most sense "for me" as I

was transitioning from traditional medium format cameras. A 6x9

camera is also the perfect candidate for transitioning into digital

view camera photography in the future. If you haven�t explored the

world of medium format view cameras already, I would seriously

recommend that you look into their many benefits before you make your

final purchase.

[abiggs]

Good point about the 6x9 aspect.

 

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Another thing to consider: If you are going to work with the zone

system, you need the ability to develop each negative separately.

Only the 'large formats' can do this without significant ease.

 

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$.02

[robert_pellegrino]

I concur with your comment about single sheet development for the

zone system Andy, but if you choose to bracket your exposures, roll

film makes life much easier. That�s my .01-cent comment, because you

know roll film is cheaper ha ha.

[abiggs]

No kidding about the cost difference. I found this out it a big way.

Especially when I switch over to Velvia or Provia with the QuickLoad

system.

 

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Not to dwell on the zone system topic, but bracketing won't achieve

the same results as a N-1 or N-2 development would. Of course, if you

intend on printing digitally, it really closes that gap. I would love

to get a 6x9 Horseman back for my Canham DLC 4x5, because the

processing is easier and cheaper, and film loading is not a problem.

Great learning tool, as well, for those new to large format. Don't

discount Polaroids for teaching, as well.

[michael_kadillak3]

I completely agree with Kevin's previous posting. While I respect

your research and desire to translate the same ratios as you shoot

with 35mm, my experience turned out to be the exact opposite when I

turned to large format. I found that the way I shot 35mm was not even

close to how I have learned to visualize 5x7. They are two distinctly

different animals. With 35mm, you are nimble and quick with the shot.

With large format you find yourself being extremely patient and pre-

visualizing the optimal perspective. It is much more methodical and

time consuming with tremendous results. I would make the following

suggestion. Do yourself a favor. Don't get hung up on a specific

manufacturer or a specific focal length. All of the big four

(Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon and Fuji) make great plasmats. Purchase

the best combination of cost/coverage and size standard focal length

210mm lens and start shooting it to get a feel for the way to set up,

frame, focus, insert a film holder etc. That was the advice I got

from this forum starting out several years ago and it was very sound.

You can always get another lens and screw it on a board. Remember,

the focal length only increases or decreases the amount of the

coverage from the point where you drop your tripod. Working with a

single lens to start out forces you to get out your perspective card

or other framing device to learn where to drop the legs. I have seen

many a photographer carrying their complete camera on tripod with

lens still attached when they decided to move to a better shooting

point. Myself, my objective is to get it right the first time.

 

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As for your decision to get the 5x7 metal Canham, you cannot go

wrong. The Canham takes a bit to get used to, but no camera is

perfect. I feel that it is one of the best combinations of light

weight and functionality. Good Luck

[neil_poulsen1]

Have you looked at the reviews on www.camerareview.com? It makes for

interesting reading on the Canham 5x7.

 

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As for 6x9 and the zone system, it's not that difficult to get

multiple film holders for N, N+1, etc. Given the conditions at the

time, I doubt that it would be necessary to carry all five. A couple

could be left in the car. I enjoy shooting 6x9 on a 4x5 camera, so I

get the appropriate holders and carry them in my backpack. Per shot,

6x9 holders take up less room.

[matt_oulman]

I have a question for all of you who shoot 5x7.

I bought a 5x7 as my first LF camera, but was unaware of the problems

involved with obtaining film.

Just where do you get 5x7 film? Kodak does not make it anymore, Fuji

does not sell it in the US......

B&H ? - Zip

Adorama? - Zip

Badger? - Zip

I have tried ordering it through several photo shops - Zip, can't get

it.

There is an online outfit that will custom-cut - for a price. But

there delivery time is outragious.

I got so disgusted, that I sold the camera and went 4x5.

So where do you all get this film?

[michael_kadillak3]

To bad you sold the 5x7. It is a fantastic format and film is

available. At B&H you can buy B&W 5x7 from Kodak (Plus x and Tri x)

and Ilford (FP4 and HP5) as well as Bergger. I have a freezer of T

Max 100 and 400, Ilford and Fuji Velvia. Badger usually has plenty of

5x7 in both B&W and color.

 

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When it is gets newly stocked, you should buy it and stock pile a

bit, but so what. I want a consistent emulsion supply anyway. Dan

Smith, a great proponent of 5x7, was able to get Arista 5x7 to bring

both their 100 ASA and 400 ASA offerings. On another positive note,

Canham claims that they are selling as many 5x7 cameras as 4x5. This

will translate to more film usage and better film supplies. And if

you cannot tell, I am very much an optimist for the future of the

proportions of 5x7.

[mike_malone]

Thanks to everyone for your informative responses. Several of you

mentioned other formats, such as 6x9, 4x5, etc. My reasoning is that

since I am moving up from 35mm to a format that requires more set up

time, I may as well go quite a bit bigger. 4x5 is 13 times bigger

than 35mm, but if you crop a 4x5 to a rectangular ratio, you would

maybe 8 times larger than 35mm. However, 5x7 is 25 times larger than

35mm, and because it is already the rectangular ratio I desire, I

wouldn't be losing any of that size advantage. Also, Canham makes a

4x5 reducing back for the MQC 57, and from reading the threads in the

5x7 section, it looks like they will soon have a roll film back for

the MQC 57 (is this for 6x17 that some other threads mention?). The

MQC57 is only a little (one pound?) heaver, and just a little bulkier

than the Canham 4x5 DLC, so it appears like the MQC 57 is a very

versitile large format camera. That said, I checked out the reviews

on www.camerareview.com that Neil Poulsen mentioned in his response.

Talk about derailing my enthusiasm for the MQC57 (and Canham's DLC

4x5)! Almost all the reviews, written by disgruntled owners, were

very bad. The common theme had to do with design flaws in the way the

knobs won't keep the rear standards locked down. I know many people

are very happy with their Canhams, however it appears that there are a

fair number who have have bad luck with the camera. The reviews I

read in the camera review web site have not made me give up on the

Canhams, but I will definitely be studying this issue more before

buying a camera. From what I have read about Ebony cameras, they

sound like the ultimate, but they cost a fortune... Matt, I checked

Badger Graphic's web site, and as Michael Kadilak said in his

response, they do stock 5x7 film. They have both Velvia and Provia F.

If those were the ONLY color films available for 5x7, I could live

with that, because that is what I almost always use anyway. I

couldn't tell from Badger's web site if their Provia F is 100 or 400;

I sure hope both are available! Not too many people commented on the

two lens choices I mentioned in my original question, so maybe I've

got the lenses nailed down. Now I just have to decide on a Canham

or???

[tom_bowen]

i understand your issues. i went with the 4x5 based on film

availability and selection, that was more important and the increased

film size for me.

 

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the camera i went with was the toyo vx125, it's a little on the

expensive side but after using it i think its well worth the expense

when you think about the quality of the controls, size and weight.

 

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good luck with the selection.

 

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tom

[dan_dozer]

Hi Mike,

 

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I stumbled across this forum website today and saw your notice a

couple of weeks ago on 5 x 7 cameras and lenses. I too am a recent 5

x 7 convert having shot 4 x 5 for many years. I have two lenses for

the 4 x 5 (Schneider super angulon 90 mm/F8 and Schneider Symmar S

210 mm/F5.6 that I purchased about 15 years ago. Both work very well

on the old 5 x 7 Empire State camera that I have. The only problem

is that the old camera (made around 1900) has pretty small lens

boards and the there's no room to shift the 90mm. However, the 210mm

has more than enough coverage for my camera and landscape stuff that

i shoot. I'm interested in getting another lens or two for my camera

but the one thing I'm most concerned about is with used lenses, how

do you know if you will get the coverage you want.

 

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Anyway, the good thing about these two lenses is that back in the

80's, they were two of the standards in the 4 x 5 market.

Consequently, there are a lot of them for sale from the used dealers

or even on Ebay and the prices are very reasonable.

 

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Here's something that might help you if your'shopping for used

lenses. I found a website at http://graflex.org/lenses/lens-

spec.html that is an 18 page list of lens information of all the

major manufacturers in the past from 47mm all the way up to 800 mm.

It does list the image circle sizes of each - remember that the image

circle for a 5 x 7 sheet of film is approximately 215 mm or 8.6 in.

 

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Hope this helps.

 

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Dan