Help with bag design

[austin_brown]

Hi,

 

Im doing some research for a camera backpack project for a design class and am

looking for a little insight on the subject. Any and all help will be much

appreciated.

 

I'll be glad to share what I come up with in a few weeks! Im looking for general

things at this point:

 

-How much gear might you carry in a pack? #of lenses, bodies, accessories, and

misc. items?

 

-If you do carry a pack do you carry it alone or with an additional form of storage?

i.e. beltpack, sholder bag, etc...?

 

-Other than the issue of efficient gear access with a backpack, what other

issues arise?

[j_anon]

1. single body, 3-4 lenses, extra battery, card reader, cords, etc

 

2. Alone

 

3. Comfort, quality, style all equally important.

[bruce_margolis]

"Other than the issue of efficient gear access with a backpack, what other issues arise"

 

I like my backpack to include a weather cover and I always want tripod straps.

 

BTW, you can check out most of the camera backpack manufacturers on the net to see what they offer, i.e., Lowepro, Tamrac, ThinkTank, etc. There are many many different styles to fit the many many different needs.

[Matthew Currie]

I don't use a backpack but my wife does. Her criteria are pretty much the same as J. Anon's above, except to substitute film and extra AA batteries for digital accessories. Style probably is at the bottom of her list (bless her) but comfort and quality are important, as is protection of gear including things stowed in the little peripheral pockets.

 

Unlike Bruce Margolis, she rarely if ever carries the tripod on the pack, because her chosen tripod is a bit big and clumsy, and she's not very large herself. If you do provide tripod straps, they should be easy to stow so that they don't get caught in car doors, snagged on bushes, etc.

 

I think ultimately the make-or-break issue is access - specifically how to get a camera quickly in and out of a pack without compromising its security, and without spilling the other contents. Solve that problem creatively and the rest will follow.

 

I prefer a hard case, from which I decant various lenses and bits into pockets and pouches as needed, but I think generally if you carry a backpack, you'd expect to use it alone.

[Hector Javkin]

1. Typically: One body, 3-5 lenses, extra battery, memory card wallet, blower bulb, pens and small writing notebook (8x5 inches).

 

Sometimes: additional body, tiny laptop (10.5 x 8 x 1.5 inches) to run on its own battery (no power adapter), rain poncho, water bottle, tiny flashlight.

 

2. alone, except for shirt and pants pockets.

 

3. Water-protected, well-padded, light weight, easy on-off, no interference with shirt pockets.

[ilkka]

I would like tripod fixture to be so that bag can be opened without removing tripod. Lot of adjustments for the internal partition, with no preset locations. Sometimes I carry a 4x5 and sometimes 35, and usually something in between. While almost all bags have movable partitions, very few really allow them to be fixed freely anywhere. I would like the bag to hold its shape even when only a few partitions are in (for example when a large open space is needed for LF camera). Many bags get very limp when some partitions are not in place and when you open the bag half the stuff falls out. I would like the internal material to be soft but not something that sucks up water and sand. Good, big enough, external pockets are also important.

[john_kjellberg]

One thing I miss in all existing packs is a clever compartment for extras (sweater, coat, food). The existing ones mostly place this behind the pack. This means placing weight unnecessarily far out behind my back. Weight should be as close to ones body as possible. So I would like a compartment under the camera part (in case something leaks). And maybe an other over the camera compartment.

 

Also all packs have lots of padding between your back and the camera, which also moves the weight to far out. I suppose that padding is very nice when crawling on the ground with pack on...

 

One more problem is that all bags except, maybe, the really big ones are too short for my back (I have a LowePro Pro Trekker and it's a bit short, load stabilizers should go at least 10 degrees upward, which they do not). Those big ones are heavy. I also want to carry my lenses with hood on, ready to shoot. Especially if the weather is adverse. So I'd really like a lightweight long big pack that is not so heavy. It does not need to be built for being jammed with stuff. Just a place to protect my gear while keeping it all ready for action.

 

Last missing extra is a mesh pocket for rainclothes. Typically rain is something that comes and goes. So you need a place for wet rain clothes between showers. An outer mesh pocket would do the trick.

 

John

[austin_brown]

Great, I think this is some valuable stuff. Another point on top of the aforemetioned questions; what's the deal with laptops and other various electronic devices. Based on previous research it seems to be mixed. The more popular packs are mixed as well. Some include a laptop compartment, and some don't... (card reader was mentioned- what about cords, chargers, portable hard drive?)

[bruce_margolis]

Austin, the reason some bags include a laptop compartment and some don't is simple. Some people want to carry a laptop, others don't like the additional weight.

 

That's why there are so many bag designs out there. Some are small for carrying maybe only a couple lenses. Others are huge, big enough for a couple bodies, 4-5 lenses, and other things. Some people are small and often want smaller bags, other people are big and want bigger bags.

 

Me, I would love a bag that carried 'everything' but I don't want to lug around a 50 lb bag all day. That means compromises. I guess my max load limit is about 15 lbs. Others may have a 30 lb limit or more.

 

Bottom line, each person decides what they want/need and that's what goes into the backpack. But to answer one of your questions, I take a laptop/portable drive/etc in a separate bag, never in my camera backpack. But that's just me.

[austin_brown]

that makes sense. Maybe a smaller bag for maneuverability and a minimum amount of gear, and a larger one with more space / features...

[Matthew Currie]

With regard to the padding, a fair amount is needed between back and camera if you go very far with heavy equipment, and it's also likely that the pack will be laid down flat on its back often, especially when opened. It would be nice to make that padding very compact, but there is probably a point at which you trade thickness for unwanted stiffness.

 

The laptop issue is interesting. Thinking off top of head, how about a modular design in which the laptop section is somehow removable, so that the same basic mid-size bag can become a bigger one as needed? I have no idea how this could be well done, of course, but I'm not designing bags. :)

[austin_brown]

Thankyou everyone. If anyone has any input they might share and would like to put in their two cents then please do so. The more information I can gather on this the better!

[ilkka]

As has been mentioned already above, there are many different bags on the market because it is impossible that one would fit all. There is not, and cannot be, one perfect bag. Maybe you should consider either designing a perfect bag for some very specific users, or a range of bags that have some similar features but are different in size and for example in tripod/laptop compartments. Maybe some sort of modular design would be possible to truely make a one, nearly perfect bag. Even then, 2-3 different sizes would probably be needed to cater to the African safari shooter who needs to carry a 600mm lens and the city trecker whose longest lens is 70-200.

[john_kjellberg]

The padding against the back does not need to be thicker than the rest. Maybe stiffer but not thicker.

 

I've seen a picture of a very nice home-built modular pack once. He had taken a classical outer frame from an old-style backpack. On that he had fastened a few shoulder camera bags. It looked really perfect for forest service. But it's not so easy to replicate.

[austin_brown]

I agree, Ikka. At this point I am shooting to create 2 bags. Both should be modular/customizable, although to different degrees. The larger might include more "bells n whistles" - within good taste, and the smaller will be simpler but incorporate the same design "language"

 

John, I have pulled a few product samples from Tamrac and Lowepro and they all seem have very thick back padding. I'm not sure if this is needed but what does every one else think? The packs tend to pull back and down on the shoulders rather than forward against the back, right? Any one have an opinion on this?

[ilkka]

'Padding' is needed for three purposes. 1-you need a bit of padding to protect the equipment inside from banging against each other and against rocks etc. when the bag is put down. This padding should also be enough to eat up any small protruding camera or lens parts so that they don't grind into your back when carrying the bag. 2-You might need a lot more padding if you carry very odd shaped items. I think this is unlikely for normal camera equipment. One would try to fit the equipment into the bag so that it makes a streamlined well fitting package. 3-Large back packs, whether or not meant for photo gear, have thick padding and empty channels in between to move the bag off the back and to provide some ventilation. While this is a good idea, at least in theory, it does cause the bag to be too far away from the body. Packs that are meant for mountainclimbers, for example, have much closer fit. I suppose they think that balance is more important than ventilation. Maybe something in between these two approaches is right for camera backpacks. Someone who spends a week walking in the bush would want wider ventilation channels while the city traveller who has to pass through airport security would surely prefer a thinner padding and closer fit with no empty airchannels for comfort.

[austin_brown]

Very informative, thankyou. Id like to bring up the issues of access to a pack. Ive spoken with a few people that are more indifferent about the idea of on the fly access and dont mind setting the pack down. On the other hand however, there seems to be more that are turned away from packs for that very reason. Would one rather set the pack down and work out of it or keep it on while working?

[obi-wan-yj]

I would greatly prefer to swap lenses without having to set the pack down, and without spilling its contents all over the sidewalk. In a crowded or muddy area, laying the pack down to open it up is extremely inconvenient. This is my biggest complaint with most backpacks. Alas, I'm shopping for one anyway, because the shoulder bag style is too uncomfortable to use when day hiking in the mountains, and I want to have nearly all my gear easily accessible.

 

I like the accessibility that Tamrac's Velocity series provides, but they're not big enough for my needs.

 

When it comes to accessing lots of gear, the single-layer storage that backpacks provide is easier than the double-layer scheme of most shoulder bags. I realize that this is in direct competition to making it easy to access while wearing the bag, but that's the designer's problem... ;-)

 

Tripod straps should be provided on medium size bags, and they shouldn't block access to frequently used pockets like those intended to store your batteries & memory cards.

 

I will not store anything important in a pocket that isn't protected by a zipper. Pockets with merely a single velcro flap are for candy bars, not electronic equipment.

 

What I would love is some way for the user to configure what sort of pockets, pouches, or straps they have on either side of the backpack. If I'm traveling light, I may want just a map pocket on the side. If I'm traveling heavy, I may want my tripod hanging off one side and a 32oz Gatorade hanging off the other side. Having a way to accessorize these pockets would be great.

 

I'm shopping for a bag right now, and I'm having trouble finding one that will allow me to store my cheap 500mm lens (3" x 14") inside the bag without buying a bag that's far larger than I need for the rest of my components.

 

I'd like to see a backpack that allowed you to detach either strap to turn it into a sling pack, or replace both straps with a shoulder strap. Shoulder bags don't work well in the mountains, and backpacks look tacky at weddings.

 

Accessory pockets should be a variety of useful sizes, so small items don't get lost in cavernous pockets with everything else. Clear plastic or see-through mesh material is good for easily locating the right pocket containing the item you're looking for. Having a small, externally-accessible pocket just big enough for a few memory cards or extra batteries is good.

 

FYI, I carry a single body with 4-5 short & telephoto lenses, the longest of which would be either my current 3"x14" 500mm or a soon-to-buy 3.5"x7.5" 100-400mm. I want to be able to store the body in the bag with the 100-400 attached. I usually prefer to carry my tripod with me.

[ilkka]

All bags will allow very easy access if you can put them down on the ground. That is no challenge. Try to do that when you are standing knee deep in water, or on a muddy riverbank. Tripod fixture should be on the side so that the bag can be opened without removing the tripod, unlike in many Lowe Pro bags where it is in the centre of the bag at the back. Maybe the bag needs separate compartments so that just a part of the bag can be opened. Most backpacks have one large compartment that needs to be opened more or less completely before you get good access and then the stuff starts falling out. Especially when balancing on that rock in the middle of the river while holding the bag and camera in one hand and trying to use the other to find that wideangle from the bag.

[john_kjellberg]

Someone (Kata??) makes a bag which opens on the back side in stead of the traditional front side. That should be much better on mud and stuff (not in deep water though ;-)). But I wonder how that affects ruggedness. It means everything is hanging on the zipper when carrying.

 

On the topic of padding, a hard plastic board against the back should eliminate irregularities.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

I use a Kelty Redwing that has been customized:

 

http://www.photobackpacker.com/home.asp

 

What I like:

 

1. Fit and comfort are outstanding. But I did start with a real backpack.

 

2. Access. The compartment opens from the front and I can get to anything quickly (once I take the pack off).

 

3. Modules to customize for gear carried.

 

4. Minimal padding. Enough protection without going overboard.

 

5. Weight. Much lighter than dedicated camera packs.

 

6. Storage pockets. Nice size and easy access.

 

What could be improved:

 

1. Attachment for tripod. I now have to remove the tripod prior to opening the pack.

 

2. Not very stylish. But, hey, the styling does match my hiking boots.