4x5 field cameras

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I am in the market for a 4x5 field camera but don't know where to start? I know various brand names such

as Linhof, Toyo, Shen Hao. I used a Toyo in school and I really liked it. I don't know how to distinguish

what I want. I found a Linhof Technika IV for $1300 and I also found a Shen Hao for $500. How do I know

what is the best value for the money?

[brucecahn]

The Linhof is definately preferable if the price is no problem. For $500. the Shen Hao should be in perfect condition. These have a mixed reputation. Some people like them some hate them. It might have to do with whether they got a good one or one with defects. Linhof has the best possible reputation. Just make sure that the Linhof with lenses and filmholders is not too heavy for the uses you have planned. There are other choices which you should consider--lighter than the Linhof better than the Shen Hao.

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I used to lug around a big case with the toyo and I never use the camera without I tripod so

weight is not a huge issue for me. The main reason I'm looking for a field camera is because I

want something portable.

[mark f]

The other camera to consider is the Tachihara (assuming you don't want to use roll film). I use 90mm-240mm lenses with plenty of movement and ability to close focus. Sometimes I wish for the more precise movements of a metal camera, but I really like my Tachi and can't imaging needing anything more.

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What is the price range for the Tachihara? How old are they? I have only heard of this type on

previous forums. Where can you find them?

[jeff_plomley1]

Jennifer:

 

Don't rule out an Arca Swiss F-Field camera. I started with an Ebony SV45TE and flipped it

for an Arca Swiss about a month later. Why? Rigidity and precision are far superior on the

Arca Swiss. Rear swing and shift are also decoupled on the Arca. The bellows draw is

360mm and the bellows that ships with the Arca has been designed to function as both a bag

bellow for wide angles and a standard bellow for telephoto work. The rail is collapsible and

the entire outfit packs away very nicely in a Lowe Pro Photo Trekker. Oh yeah, one last item.

The Arca has the nicest focussing screen I have ever seen.

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That's a new one! I've never hear of the Arca Swiss. I live in a city that currently has 2 - 4x5

field cameras only - the Linhof I mentioned and a really really old one, that I actually forget

the name of now. I've been on ebay but haven't seen that much. Where do you find these

cameras?

[brucecahn]

Jennifer: You can get a Tachihara at midwestphoto.com. They are a little better than the Shen Hao. If you want to email me I will give you a list of what is available, where to get them and the prices--Bruce

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Hey Bruce, I just looked at the midwestphoto website you suggested. Why is the Shen Hao so

cheap? The price makes me question its quality. Especially because I'm not experienced

enough to know, I haven't used any other 4x5 cameras than the Toyo from school. Looking at

the prices on there for the other namebrands, I'm starting to think that Linhof Technika IV for

$1300 is a pretty good price.

[mark f]

The Tachihara is $600 new. I bought mine at Midwest (along with a nice used 150mm lens and holders), but Badger Graphic (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=136) also carries them. The URL has a picture of it.

[bart feliciano]

What are your requirements for movements?

 

FWIW, I'm very happy with my Graflex Super Speed Graphic and my Toyo variant Super Graphic.

 

Fewer movements than the Linhof, but more in the price range of the Shen Hao.

 

Also, it can be used handheld and has rangefinder focusing.

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I saw a Pacemaker Speed Graphic on ebay, is that the same thing as a Graflex Super Speed

Graphic? As far as movements go I've only used the tilt back and side to side movements, are

there more than that?

[Troll]

Jenifer, if you don't know what you need, then you don't need it. Stick with whatever you're already using -- save your money.

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I was using Toyo at school but I am done my degree now and no longer have access to

borrowing the cameras from school. This is why I am looking to buy one. I came here

because I thought that I could get some valuable advice and gain some knowledge as to what

I need. I've read up on previous forums and thought this was the place to be when looking for

information. Bill, I get the feeling that you are not into welcoming me because I am not

confident in what I am looking for. I must admit I feel a little "dissed" by your comment. I do

appreciate everyone's input and suggestions so far.

[sumo_kun]

I'm surprised that no-one has asked what you actually shoot. Camera choice depends a lot onyour intended purpose. Judging by the fact that you want a field camera, I am thinking you are not going to be using it in a studio.

 

Well, here is my opinion. First thing is the movements. Unless you do photography that needs a lot of movements (e.g. architecture), don't automatically go for the camera with the most. Field cameras usually have less than monorail types.

 

From what I have heard, a first good camera is the Shen Hao or Tachihara. Those 2 names always come up when someone asks for a new camera recommendation. I guess they are both adequate. I started with a Cambo Cadet. It's a cheap monorail. After that I moved to an Ebony 45S which is a sort of wooden "monorail" I guess. Anyway, depending on your budget, you can get a really nice field camera. The SH/Tachi are both decent options but I think they lack the long term durability of a better made camera. The linhof you have eyed up is a good choice. Lots of people use them and they are built to last. Other brands would be Wista and Horseman. Both offer well made cameras for a reasonable price.

 

I think your first camera should be something that you would want to use. Most cameras out there are similar in features and most can do 90% plus of photographic tasks. The design is the thing that sets them apart and so my first aim would be ease of use. Smoothness of focussing and rigidity is a big factor. Its really annoying working with a camera which is loose and imprecise. Metal cameras have the edge over wooden ones here, generally speaking.

 

Back movements have their place but I find front movements easier to use. They require less recomposition and adjustment.

 

Lenses are also an important choice to make so its best to think about what lenses you can use with the camera you want before deciding.

[jimsimmons]

Jennifer, that was a very polite way you stood up to Bill's comment. We have too much of that type of "advice" here at times, and I am glad you did not shy away from expressing how it makes a newcomer feel. I hope others read this and learn from it.

 

Do answer Chuk's question about what you shoot. That will help us give you advice. Leaving room in the budget for quality lenses that cover enough area for the movements you will require needs to be taken into account.

 

I don't know about the price value of the Linhof IV, but it is a very good camera that should leave you wanting nothing more. That is, assuming you don't need the movements that architecture requires.

 

If I could suggest you try to get to a city that will let you get some hands-on experience, that will really help you. I made a trip to NY before buying my Arca-Swiss, and that convinced me to go that route. I'd been looking at less expensive cameras prior to that, but when I felt the difference in controls, I was sold. The in-hand feel is pretty important. How easy to unfold, set up, change lens boards, make fine adjustments, etc. At that point, the choice becomes very personal, and the odds are greatly increased that your first purchase is one you will not be wanting to trade in within a few months.

[lauren_macintosh]

Jennifer: there many real good places to get used LF equipment

one is on APUG.org for sale forum, two is right here on LF for forum, three there is KEH.COM lF carmera section and their BNG is still darn good stuff, I have bought there and have had no problems, four is www3.lensrepro.com, five is www.equinoxphotographic.com LF section, you can try View camera web site also and Adorama and B&H and Buyer Beware good old ebay good luck but think of what you want before you go after something and then later oh I should have gotten that?\Lauren

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I am mostly into portraiture and art photography. Actually, I have mostly done my work in a

studio-type setting, indoors with lights. I still like the idea of the field camera because I do

not have a set studio as of yet, so I like to have something portable. Also, I spend alot of time

in the country and eventually would like to set some scenes outdoors among nature. So far I

have heard "Tachihara" repeatedly as a good suggestion, so I will do some research on that.

Thanks to everyone for your input, I am slowly starting to get a feel for what's out there. I will

continue my research before making my purchase.

[erik_l.]

Jennifer,

I use a Shen Hao for landscape, still life, and sometimes portraits. It is a great camera at a great price. I cannot think of one feature that it is lacking...well auto focus and exposure would be nice I guess.

 

Erik.

[michael_kwiatkowski]

Linhof makes a great camera. Many great photographers have used one.

Movements, weight, ruggedness and bellows extension are four of the things I look at. I

am a landscape photographer so I do not need the movements that some others might. I

do however want the movements to be smooth and the camera to be easy to clean and

lube when I come back from the field. Weight and ruggedness kind of meld for me. The

lightest cameras are wood(tachihara etc). Although it has not happened yet (no jinx) I

know some day I'm going to knock my camera over on a rock or bang it on something and

I worry about doing some destruction to a wood camera. But, people have used wood

cameras as long as there have been cameras. Most without a problem. Also, wood cameras

are very beautiful. With that said I use a folding metal field camera.

Another thing to look at is bellows extension. If you are going to use any long lenses you

should be sure the camera bellows can extend to handle them. Many field cameras have a

shorter bellows, I would imagine to make them more compact. The Linhof has a longer

bellows I believe. Though it is not technically a field camera it folds up nicely. Ebony wood

cameras also have a long bellows. So does Arca-Swiss. These three are usually at the

higher $ end of cameras though. But, they are all very, very nice.

As Chuk said, you need to think about how you are going to use the camera first. Then

figure out how much you want to spend. That will narrow it down. You said you have

already used a Toyo (I use the 45AX Toyo). Was there anything you wanted to do that you

couldn't do with it? Is there anything else you wish it could do? Use your experience in

looking for features on your soon to be new camera.

I hope these thoughts help. Good luck on your search, it can be fun and confusing.

[michael_briggs2]

The Shen-Hao is has a very low price because it is made in China. I have never used one, but have seen and handled one. It is a lot of camera for the money.

 

My first advice is not to worry too much about which camera to buy. Most of us who have been in LF photography awhile have switched cameras. With experience you will know which camera aspects are most important to you. Lightest weight? Greatest precision? Interchangeable bellows? Wood vs metal? etc. LF isn't like small and medium format: the lenses don't have a mount that makes them specialized to a particular camera brand. If you later get a different camera, you can just more your lenses to different lensboards and keep using them.

 

There are many past threads about field cameras in the archives, you may wish to browse in the "Cameras" category".

 

Besides your comments about wanting a field camera, any hints about your budget would help us in giving advice. People have suggested cameras with a wide range of prices. Also, do you have any ideas of what range of focal lengths you want the camera to be work with?

[david jeffery]

Jennifer,

 

As you can see there is no single simple answer so take some time to study. As Michael stated understanding your budget is important as well.

 

I studied 4x5 cameras for about seven months and the following is what I was lead to believe. Others are welcome to correct me as I have only used the Ebony. Price was not much of an issue for me but I'm nice and broke now after a year of going crazy shooting.

 

The Canham DLC is highly regarded by many, fairly light weight and has good movement and a long bellows which was a big plus, but I read is may not be as rigid as some others.

 

The Technicas are rock solid and last a lifetime but are a little heavier and some other cameras offer a few more movements. You may not need the other movements for landscape photography.

 

After a lot of reading the Arca Swiss was the camera the I liked the most overall, specifically for the fine geared movements.

 

I called to order the Arca and asked if there were any other cameras that I should consider and it was suggested that I consider the Ebony 4x5's which were news to me then.

 

I Googled the Ebony's and found a well known photographer that had switched from the Arca Swiss to the Ebony 45SU because the Ebony had asymetrical rear movements which makes focusing very easy and fast. Using rear tilt and swing is OK if you don't have to keep objects in correct perspective as is often the case with landscape photography which is what I shoot. The Ebony also had 50mm of rear shift and I thought this would be good for some applications.

 

 

The 45SU is also not a folding camera and I read that it sets up very fast and easily which turned out to be true, and the little extra weight was fine for me. I ended up ordering the Ebony 45SU and love it for it's sheer beauty. It's made from Ebony wood and titanium and the craftsmanship is so nice that it may be the nicest thing that I have ever owned.

 

Since then I have read that there are a number of people that switched from the Ebony's to the Arca Swiss, and there are times when I am trying to make very fine front lens tilts that I really have to keep the controls tight to stop the lensboard from jumping into the zero detent position and then I think about the Arca's fine movements. I'm strong enough to make the small adjustments but the Arcas fine gearing may be better for you.

 

Using the asymetrical focusing is very easy and I really enjoy that feature. I have never used the rear shift.

 

The Arcas, Technicas and the Ebony's are expensive but you get what you pay for. The Canham DLC is a great camera. If you happen to find a great deal on any of these cameras that may be enough to finalize your decision.

 

There are so many trade offs, cost, weight, quality of materials, universal bellows so you can shoot wide angle and somewhat long lenses without changing bellows, rigidity, fine geared movements, the types of movements possible, fast and easy set up, fast and easy focus, size when compressed.

 

FWIW just by chance I bought a Kelty Redwing 3100 backpack and Photobackpaker makes camera and lens cases specifically for this pack and it handles everything I need it for.

 

Good Luck and take your time!

[david jeffery]

"I am mostly into portraiture and art photography"

 

My response was for a 4x5 field camera for landscapes.

[spodzone]

OK, there's still two bits of advice I haven't seen on here yet. First: do your research on http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ and see what you're getting into - lenses, lens-boards, the differences between back and front tilt and other movements, etc.

 

Second: the reasons I love my shen-hao are it does the job, and it feels good to use - extend a paw and the controls are right between finger and thumb as an extension of my head (I couldn't say the same for the Linhof I had - crank-handles for front rise/fall? Not my cup of espresso). This is a hint that, whatever you go for, try and have a play with a few models in the flesh first.

 

Good luck and welcome to the club. We've got dark-cloths :)

[leonard_evens]

I've been using a Toho FC-45X for about 7 years now, and I have been happy with it. It is a modified monorail tha t comes apart into two pieces for easy transport. It is lighter than most so-called field cameras and easy to stow in a backpack or camera bag. I use it with lenses from 75 mm to 300 mm. There is limited movement at short focal lengths, but that can be dealt with by Toho's eccentric lens board which substitutes for a bag bellows.

 

See Kerry Thalmann's review at www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

for more details.

 

It can be purchased from Badger Graphics.