Join me in a brainstorm...

[kate_nickel]

So over and over again in this forum we have discussed what "true"

photojournalism is...blah blah blah. I don't meant to do that here.

 

My question, or my desire to brainstorm, stems from the concept that so many

brides desire a photojournalistic approach, but time and time again they call

and ask me what time "pictures" will start and how long I will be with the

bridesmaids before "pictures" start with the groomsmen. And so begins the

construction of the box that so many couples fall into when it comes to wedding

photography.

 

I thought it might be fun (in the midst of crazy wedding season) to brainstorm

ideas for ways in which to engage the B&G and wedding party in moments that lend

toward a photojournalistic style. So that "picture taking" time can be very

natural. I would personally like to do away with this time altogether, but a

bride would probably flip if you told her there would not be a time set aside

for "pictures."

 

For example, instead of saying that "pictures" will begin at 1:00...maybe there

is a "wedding party party" at 1:00 and you suggest a bowl of lemonade out on the

lawn, and photos will happen as they happen. Maybe this consists of funny

questions or games you ask from trivia cards...like the game Cranium. Anything

to break the ice. I would love to engage in a brainstorm with ideas such as these!

 

I am slowly implementing some of these ideas as I gain experience...asking the

B&G to sit and talk about their favorite part of the ceremony, or what they are

looking forward to on their honeymoon. In engagement sessions I have them talk

about their definition of marriage, so to get some tender moments and laughter.

 

I would love to hear other thoughts and ideas. I don't like the idea of "setting

up" PJ shots...but we've all discussed the pros and cons to this term and what

brides are really expecting...and there has to be a happy medium between

scheduling a time to "take pictures" and telling a bride we just won't be

setting aside time for photos.

 

Thoughts? Ideas? Am I nuts?

[kiva]

~You have to know who you are and what you offer and have the ability and the willingness to educate a bridal couple on your vision; they will accept it or they will reject it: welcome to business.

 

~If you don't want to photograph "the pictures" then be upfront when talking with them and state it on your website ... and be ready to have very few calls.

 

~If you want to photograph weddings this year and next year then bite the bullet and jump into the Joy of Shooting "the pictures" and get them done. While getting "the pictures" (formals) done there are many opportunities to turn your camera to those milling around and capture them candidly as they joke and get nervous.

 

~To respond more directly to your post: I've also wondered how to move the couples more towards more fulfilling and exciting photography. One way I do it is to show them photos of brides and grooms that have taken time to shoot "Creative Portraits" ... truth be told is that I have to squeeze these in between "the pictures" and the reception and I find it frustrating that so little time is given to the most creative and most enjoyed photos and so much time is devoted to stoic stand and smile photos that are rarely ever looked at or admired and they have NO STORY to them other than being "the pictures".

 

~Funny to read your post because I started writing a bit of an education piece to brides who contact me in the future about the formals/"the pictures" asking them questions about them and coming up with better ways to use the time. I've jotted down ideas like assuring the bride and groom that I can get a photo of them with their wedding party members and family members as they get ready and talk and dance and eat and generally flow with the wedding celebration process throughout the day and in place of "the pictures" I offer to use the time to get Creative Portraits of the bride and groom and even the wedding party if they want to use that time differently.

 

~I think the secret is to actually show them photographs taken when time is used differently. I feel that the bride and groom don't know what the alternative looks like. It's a visual thing: they need to see the samples of "the pictures" and right beside it a pile of photographs from your "Creative Session/Portraits". Then sit back and let them choose how they want to use that precious time before and after the ceremony But they need to See It visually and the timeline element has to be explained to them so they can decide if how they want to use the time.

 

~I want to start asking the couple (not telling them) to tell me which stack of photos they enjoy (the Formals or the Creative Session).

 

~Ask the couple how much time they spent looking at the formal group photos when they looked at a recent wedding album ... ask them if the photos told a story or did they show related people looking just a bit uncomfortable (and we know that formals really really can be fun... really!). I encourage couples to choreograph their own wedding and to think about the timeline of events and how they want to use the limited time they have with family and friends on that day. I am finding that couples are allowing me more time for creative portraits; It's still not where i would like it but they must be educated and they need to see your alternatives visually to be convinced to turn away from "the norm" and "the pictures". They need to "see" it.

 

~You're not nuts but the bride and groom learning curve is moving slowly in a more "natural" direction and starting to tilt more towards Creativity instead of the Stoic and Formal. All we can do is give Examples and give alternatives and then be prepared to photograph "the pictures" or the "Creative Session" or a bit of each.

 

"Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun""Formals are Fun" ...

 

~Be sure your aversion to photographing "the pictures" is not because they are difficult ... if that's the case then learn how to do them and then work on offering the bride and groom a more creative use of their time and money in conjunction with your skills in creative portraits.

[karina_a]

Hi Kate,

 

I like your ideas. I am just beginning, however in one wedding I asked the B&G if they wanted to catch up for a quick coffee with their bridal party as part of the couple shoot. It worked a treat. The bridal party walked together from the venue, along the beach and to the cafe, chatting and laughing - great time to get pics of them all together,and individually. Then I sent the bridal party into the cafe to start the champagne while B&G and I took portraits on the beach - that was the first time they had time together alone, so lots of candid moments; then we went into the cafe (verandah) and watched the sun set whilst drinking coffee and champagne. They all got to chat and laugh, and I had the opportunity to take great candids of the B&G laughing and reflecting etc as they told stories to their friends and each other about the day / proposals etc. It all happened naturally and didn't need to be set up (apart from the idea of going which was set up months before).

 

Afterwards they said to me it was their most favourite part of the day, and thank me just about every time they see me that I suggested it. It was the first time they got to really relax, and also check in with each other, the best photos were taken then, and they were recovered enough to go on to the reception (which are fun, but they of course have lots of people wanting their attention - so having time to relax beforehand helped).

 

I also organised to do this for my own wedding, and found it a similar experience, and the best photos - we absolutely were not aware of the camera, or posing - we were just catching up with each other, and enjoying the emotion of the day, and having a chance to finally breathe it all in. It was also a great chance to get the best shots of me with my husband, who is camera-shy, but was totally relaxed in this environment chatting to friends while we held hands and laughed together etc.

 

Great thread, thanks! Interested in other people's ideas.

[karina_a]

William - I agree that people want loads of formal group shots because they think that is what they are supposed to do. I think in future I will suggest taking just the main groups, and assure them as you say that you will get the other combinations at the reception / getting ready etc.

[kate_nickel]

William, I appreciate your thoughts and insight. I think your concept of an education piece is a great idea. It only makes sense to educate and show couples the difference between creative portraits and formals, etc. I also like your words "fulfilling" photography. That is obviously the goal, and when I hear couples who had originally expressed a desire for creative photography begin talking about a lot of posed photography, I begin to worry that the final product is not going to be fulfilling because they fell into the box. I do think formals are fun and I certainly don't have an aversion to them (nor do I think they are necessarily harder)...I probably misrepresented myself. And I completely understand their importance, especially with family. If I have an aversion, it is to the couple who so wanted storytelling photography, and then during their planning session start creating a traditional photography schedule. And I am on a quest to enhance and liven up the traditional time set aside for taking formals. Even beyond telling jokes, etc. Thank you Karina for your idea of going out for coffee. It would be so fun to have a bride that relaxed!

 

And as always, it is all about the couple's style and desired end result balancing with our experience and personal style. Any more practical suggestions for creative photography sessions would be great!

[annealmasy]

You know, I really think it's okay to be a photojournalist AND provide formal portraits. :)

For many people, a formal portrait of the entire family standing together, smiling and

forward-facing, is very important, and I can see why. Generations years from now will

look at that photograph, and someone will be able to point at each face and explain who

the people are. A little formality has its place -- especially if that's what your client wants.

 

That said, I like to limit the amount of time spent on formal portraits. They can easily

suck up the entire day, leaving the couple with none of the natural images they hired me

for.

 

If I'm going to be a journalist, though, I'm going to keep my journalism separate from the

portraiture. There is something unappealing to me about setting up a "picnic" in place of

the formal portraits. It's just as contrived; it's just as manipulated. All I would be doing is

tricking an outside viewer into thinking I'd captured a natural moment. (And technically

speaking, this is a big no-no in the PJ realm.)

 

From my perspective, I'd prefer to let formals be formals, and let the natural events of the

day truly be natural -- not constructed by me.

 

If I develop a reputation of creating scenarios in which the wedding party pretends they're

doing their own thing, but really they're doing something I've pre-planned for them, then

I'm shooting myself in the foot. Everyone, for the rest of the day, will be looking at me to

guide them.

 

Instead, we set aside an hour for portraits. They are absolutely posed. They are relatively

relaxed, many are pretty creative, but they are posed. The point of the portraits is to see

everyone's smiling face.

 

The rest of the day is my chance to truly prove myself as a photojournalist, to document

the expressions and interactions of people who are completely unaware of my presense,

who are doing exactly what they would be doing even if I were not there.

 

The moment I take control of any aspect of the wedding day (aside from a brief formals

session), I relinquish my photojournalist title.

 

Now, this is just the way *I* feel about it, and I have no problem with people who want to

use a different approach. But I think it's important to see the line between a documentary

approach, and a style of posing that merely LOOKS documentary.

 

Just though I'd share my perspective. :)

[doug_axford1]

I've just got time for a quick response now, maybe more later.

 

Most good PJ photographers do a lot of family & formal shots, they just don't show them on web sites because Bride's buy the 'spontaneous love' shots. Many are also horrible at formal poses. Some don't even attempt it.

 

Even weddings that want 'all PJ' photos, seem to change by the wedding day to want a lot of family & group formals. I did a wedding a few weeks ago like that. We had multiple split families and we agreed upon a deadline to get these out of the way, so she could have what she really wanted. At deadline time, I asked the bride if we could switch over - oh, just a few more family shots - that lasted another 40 minutes. I was left with 20 minutes to do the B&G formals, casuals and PJ - not anywhere close to what was needed. It was her choice on the wedding day. Not much else can be said or done.

 

The point to consider: your family lasts forever, the marriage 50/50 odds. Brides who see this may be wiser than those who don't. The portrait of grandad may be the last memory the family has, better make sure that it's a good one.

 

Doug

[kate_nickel]

Great thoughts...and I agree with many of them. The exact reason to open this thread. I must reiterate that I am in no way downplaying the importance of family formals! I couldn't agree more! And I also do not like to "set up" any type of contrived photojournalistic shots that only "look" documentary. I am just hoping to get a little more creative in my approach with how everyone is spending their time, how we schedule time, and are there ways to help a couple think differently about their approach to photos on their wedding day. But I really appreciated Doug's comment on a bride who is wise to know that family is forever. Such a good point.

 

Another point to ponder: Does anyone get anxious or start to feel bad when family members and the wedding party have to stand around to get their picture taken? I'd like to think I move very efficiently and keep the atmosphere light and fun, but there is always a part of me that feels bad for the cousin that sits there until the very end. I try and work with the largest groups first, getting extended family out of the way. But has anyone been that family member who had to wait around? When I've been a bridesmaid I've never cared...since I've always been watching the photographer and loving it! I'm just curious if this is a big nuisance or if most people don't care. I suppose most people expect to have to hurry up and wait.

 

My favorite point so far in this thread: William's approach to educating the couple in their options and actually seeing the difference in the photography, and then letting them decide and work with you to create a schedule and style that will fit. I know it isn't rocket science, but it is nice to gain some perspective once in a while.

[l_e]

My observations is that most people lose focus about 15 minutes into formals/family shots. We try to get the family shots out of the way and then do the wedding party. It seems to me that if you are in the wedding you have a bit of an obligation to put up with the process of formal images. We also use the wedding party to round up the various groupings, it gives them something to do while they wait.

 

We are pretty upfront with clients and let them know that the formals won't take more than 25 minutes. The couple shots won't take more than 30 minutes unless we have to go to lots of places. We tell them each grouping takes 3 - 4 minutes so if they have a lot plan accordingly. We also remind them that people will lose focus which will be evident in the images.

 

If you don't want to schedule a time to take photos you have to figure out a way to get everyone together spontaneously for photos. Logistically it is probably much easier to designate a time.

 

Mostly we roll with the punches, if a bride suddenly wants a ton of family formals - no problem. If it cuts into the couple shots because of other time constraints that isn't our fault we just go with it. If we are there to capture the wedding day as it unfolds then we have to let it unfold.

[doug_axford1]

I suggest that the B&G bring a basket full of munchies and drinks. The Bridal Party have their own little party while we're doing the family shots. I try to tell the group at the beginning they won't be needed for 30 minutes or more and that helps too.

 

Doug