Pre-War Rolleicords.. Lens & CLA Questions

[will_brasfield]

I am trying my best to rebuild a 1938 Rolleicord IIb, and a decrepit, Rolleicord

Ia that is perhaps even older. The Ia was very cheap, so I am using it to get

started in learning how to repair TLRs... I've been able to disassemble, clean

and reassemble the old compur shutter and focusing eccentric, and do a basic

CLA, yet there are a few, more general points which still elude me...

 

The lenses on both cameras were both pretty cruddy (Heavy haze around edges,

light white spots) when I got them, and I was wondering if anyone knows if the

Zeiss Jena Triotar is a "coated lens." Can they be damaged if rubbing alcohol /

denatured alcohol is used to clean them? If coatings are destroyed, would this

have any bearing on focusing?

 

Also,

I've read that watch oil is the thing to use in older cameras...

However, I have heard that other, cheaper things can also be used, but I was

wondering what, if any of the differences are btw. the various substances which

have been recommended to me: watch oil, 3-in-1+lighter fluid, and light machine

oil- sold by Singer for their sewing machines...

Is there a heavier lubricant I should be using on the larger parts, like the

film winder??

 

In addition, I've noticed that the glass in the Ia arrived ground side up, yet the

IIb arrived with the ground surface facing down.... so, I am confused.

Which is the correct way to place the glass? Down seemed correct, optics wise,

but I am coming to this from D-SLR, so I am uncertain... as the Rolleicord Ia,

with a much desilvered mirror, actually seemed brighter for having the glass

ground side up... am I losing it?

(both have Heidioscop-Anastigmats for the viewing lens)

 

Any advice on any of this this would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks,

Will

[ronald_moravec1]

I am far from an expert, however, Micro Tools sells what you need. Many items are designed to run dry, ie no lube at all.

 

Ground side goes down.

 

Lenses from the factory are centered so the optical center of each element is the same with respect to all the others. I believe they are marked or you need to mark as you disassemble.

 

If you remove the coatings, contrast will be lower, flare higher, sharpness and focus no change.

 

Clean elements with an ultrasonic cleaner. If that does not work, water, lens cleaner, alcohol, hydrogen peroxide+ alcohol should be tried.

 

The lens plate needs to be kept parallel to film and both lenses need to focus at the same distance at the same time.

 

Frankly I think this is all beyond amateur tinkering.

 

Oceanside Camera in California repairs TLR Rollies

[BrianS1664879711]

Ron did a good summary (as far as I'm concerned) and draws a good conclusion... unless you like tinkering and don't look at this as an "investment".

 

Regarding oil and grease - there is a lot of information floating around, much of it that is just wrong (e.g. using 3-in-1, WD-40). Camera shutters are more like watches than sewing machines. Shutters and watches are expected to work in an accurate and precise manner, plus in a wide range of environments. Watch oil and grease is the correct type of material. They are specially designed for this type of service. Two of their characteristics are that they don't break down and resist migration. If you ever read just one factory camera/shutter manual it will be perfectly clear to you that the lubricants were carefuly specified in terms of, both, types, and locations for use. The lubricants sold by micro-tools and a variety of clock repair suppliers on the web are what you are looking for. You can try anything else, but it likely won't last very long or perform well and might eventually cause other problems.

[BrianS1664879711]

Also consider Pro Camera Service in Thousand Oaks, CA. They ahve a web site and a phone number. One or more of their staff is former factory Rollei tech.

[ben_hutcherson]

Very rarely will you need to oil anything. Provided that you have all of the parts spotlessly clean, particularly in the shutter, oil will only serve to hinder their movement and probably even attract dust.

 

If you have oiled, take the shutter back apart and clean everything that you oiled with lighter fluid. The only exception to this is the shutter blades, which benefit from a more volatile solvent than lighter fluid(straight n-heptane). On a suggestion from Rick Oleson, I have always used QD electronics cleaner to clean shutter blades without disassembly the shutter to great success.

 

It's fine to the remove the lens cells, but I would suggest that you stay away from disassembling each individual cell. I would suggest using only a dry microfiber cloth at first, and perhaps some lens cleaner fluid if necessary. I have found Windex most successful at removing fungus, however I only use it in a last ditch effort to save a lens that otherwise would have been trash. The prewar Triotar should not be coated, although lens coatings are generally fairly durable.

 

Good lucks with your project! I have rehabilitated both a Rolleiflex Automat and Rolleicord III a few months ago, both of which I still use regularly and get great results with. Don't let the folks on here talk you out of it-I've found Rollei TLRs, especially the early ones and the Rolleicords to be easier to work on than any 35mm SLR I've ever had apart.

[rustys pics]

Good information so far. Sounds like the cameras are pretty trashed, so working on them will improve both them and your skills. use a digicam to photograph the disassembly of complex parts to remember the steps. Using the proper clock or watch oil is vitak as i have screwed up an old folder using the wrong grease (Graphite solution). Live and learn....

One thing I have found that works well to clean fungus from old lenses is Windex with Ammonia. Kim Wipe are super soft and make great lens cleaning tissues.

 

You'll be surprised at how good the uncoated old Triotars, Tessars, and Xenars are. I have a Rollei old standard and Rollicord IIc. I'll add a recent pic shot with an uncoated Triotar. I think even the flare can be beautiful. A good lens hood will help.<div></div>

[patric_dahl_n]

Will and Russ, there are no Rolleicord IIb or IIc. The only Rolleicords with a letter in their model names are the Ia, Va and Vb.

 

If your camera was made in 1938, bayonet on taking lens only, and a cast nameplate, It's a Rolleicord II, type 3.

 

I know some people are calling them "IIb, IIc, IId" und so weiter, but what do they call the first and second model of Vb? Vba and Vbb? :-)

[patric_dahl_n]

I have five pre-war Rolleicords, and the uncoated Triotar can be very sharp and contrasty. The 3,8 Triotar on my Rolleicord I, type 2 is little softer than the others, but still good.

 

Here's a pic I took with my 1939 Rolleicord II (type 4).<div></div>

[patric_dahl_n]

Detail.<div></div>

[www.wesleyalmond.com]

I love working on rolleicords and shooting with the old uncoated triotar lens.<br><p>

 

This photo was taken with that old three element lens, <br><p>even though most people on this site said to avoid it and get a tessar.. <br><p>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/myequation/Untitled-10-3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a><br><p>

I own both and love them both.

Any lens can take a fun picture.

 

By the way this site has a link for a FREE download of Rollei TLR blueprints.<br><p>

http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/repairmanuals.html

 

<br><p>and a forum for repair tips

[ian_tindale]

<p>I took this yesterday lunchtime on my Rolleicord II type 4 (probably? bayonets on both lenses) with Carl Zeiss Triotar 3.5 lens:

<a href="

</p>

<p>This is at f11 at 300th with an orange filter on - Lucky SHD400 film, Ilfosol S 1:14 at 25 degrees for 6 mins, a few hours ago this afternoon. </p>

<p>The first thing I did when the camera arrived last summer was to unscrew the elements and gently clean 60 years of slight haziness out then put it all back together. It's fine. Superb lens. Very frequently used as my day-to-day camera.</p>