What MF Camera would you buy your daughter?

[michael_dimarzio]

Hi fellow photonutters-I want to buy my daughter a MF camera and am a tad

stumped on what to get her, it's her first MF.

 

I usually gave the advice of a M645Pro to starters as the list of available

lenses goes on and on, and this is what I learned with so I'm familiar with

it. And the system would grow with her if she likes it. The bang for the

buck would make Reagan (and me) happy. (Mine was stolen and to this day I

miss the 50mm PC lens, Keh has a few, hmmm maybe I should get 2?)

 

After talking with her for an hour, I offered a G2, but she would like the

slowing down a manual MF body would force her into, and the new thought

processes and learning experiences. She is the meditative sort.

 

She has a p&s 8 meg digicam, but I've convinced her that her PC files probably

won't exist in 20 years, and there is still advantages to the archivability of

film. This is important to her as she starts a family.

 

Cruising through Keh, I see more options available then when I first go into

MF (I bought my M645Pro used in Israel, and really had no idea of all of the

systems available.)

 

Is there a system that I should consider before a Mamiya 645Pro, or Pro TL? I

am inclined to get her a non metered prism and a meter, as I really enjoyed

learning how a scene was illuminated (lessons I've forgotten after moving to a

Contax 645).

 

Any thoughts?

[jacob_brown]

Give her a budget and have her decide for herself.

[ondebanks]

Very hard question to answer. Depends on so many variables...what she likes to shoot, her taste for automation, SLR or rangefinder viewing, any need for fast flash sync, how much weight she's willing to lug, whether she wants interchangeable lenses and backs.

 

Why not point her to Robert Monaghan's MF forum...there are comprehensive comparison articles there. Let her educate herself and make her own informed decision?

[gary_watson]

A Mamiya Super/Pro/ProTL system would probably be the best value.My only complaint, though, about it is crappy ergonomics.The Mamiya 645 bodies are clumsy handheld without a winder--a small, odd-shaped box that sorta works in big hands but not with small paws.Still, the lenses are great and affordable and accessories are plentiful.That said, she might also like the older Pentax 645 system--another bargain.

[kparratt]

Hello Michael - well yes, this is an interesting project. I'm sure she would even enjoy a twin lens reflex, which was my first real experience with MF. Looking into a viewfinder with a reversed image is meditative enough, as well as working without a built-in meter, ... thinking about the light, and the relationship of shutter speed and aperture.

 

I started showing my son how the Hasselblad was put together when he was about four years old. ( in the same year he won a kids' competition with the Leica M3 )

 

As far as "bang for the buck" goes, it's also pretty hard to beat a basic Hasselblad 500C/M outfit. Even with just one lens, and build on it with an additional film magazine etc when a good deal presents itself.

 

My son, now 13, was last weekend enjoying a macro session, which can easily be set up with one or two extension tubes, or an extension bellows and a viewing screen, when the image is actually inverted. Ansel Adams spoke of enjoying the inverted image on large format viewing screens, because one is more focussed on composition. .. a more contemplative/meditative experience.

 

However, it is a buyers market these days, when it comes to film cameras. I love it. And yes, I second your thoughts on the use of film, regardless of what you buy for her. It's fine art medium that will be with us in one form or another forever. Etching and engraving was supposed to be rendered obsolete with the invention of photography, but history since then has told another story, and etching presses are still in production, as well as inks and equipment.

 

I'd be interested to follow this up -

 

Cheers, Kevin.

[mike_earussi1]

Even though you are familiar with the Mamiya, the simplest MF camera is always the Pentax 645. With both built-in motor drive and autoexposure pentaprism, it's the lightest and most compact MF body around. It's also the closest to an automatic 35mm or digital body in operation, which should reduce her learning curve. The manual focus ones are also very inexpensive right now and are built like tanks. See if you can find a good camera store with some various used MF cameras in stock and let her handle them to see which one seems most comfortable to her.

[jacob_brown]

How would you feel if someone bought an electric razor or deodorant for you, not knowing your preferences?

 

Let her figure out what she wants.

[martin_howard1]

How about a TLR?

C220's & C330's can be picked up for next to nothing.

[friedemann_pistorius]

My wife loves her Mamiya 6MF to death. Lightweight, ergonomic handling, supersharp pictures.

[lauren_macintosh]

I believe Myself you have three roads to follow here: one is you buy it for her based on your knowledge of your daugthers likes and dislikes! two you take her with you shopping and help her understand what and why your getting for her and listen to her responce to what you say[Please] three give her money let her fly on her own of course set limits if she is young lady [like below eighteen] asw for camera style I would say a TLR there many good ones out that are good starters [Yashica-rollie-Mamiya-or you conseider a older folding 6x6 there are a lot of choices in the MF field: good luck!\\Lauren

[golden]

my first one was a yashicamat, bought it off of ebay for 58.00, excellent camera. very inexpensive way to learn. now i use a mamiya c330, i keep my yashicamat as my backup. the reason i chose the mamiya is for the interchangeable lenses. the mamiya is a brick but its a great camera and is also rather inexpensive or at least until you start building a system then you can run into a few dollars. best regards and good luck

[michael_dimarzio]

Hi Jacob, this is a good suggestion. But she has zero MF experience and learning enough to make an informed decision may be a tad out of reach for her. She is depending on my my assistance.

 

Hey Gary, one of the things that I liked about the M645 was the ruggedness of the box (I also had a motor winder which did help the bad ergonomics. I dropped it down a flight of wet slippery stone steps and the box didn't care, nor did the 50mm PC. Thank you for the reminder, I'll definitly add the winder if I go this route.

 

Jacob, I agree with your point. Lauren has also made the same, I really do want to get her what she wants, and not what I want to give her (or better said, what I'd really like to have, a RZ67 or a Hassie!). Talking with her for a few hours on the phone, is how we eliminated a digital SLR, 35mm, the G2 (and yes I'm evil, I intentionaly omitted Leica). We talked about what and her husband like to do, they are outdoors, camping, hiking, hunting and fishing types. My daughter is reflective and an herbalist holistic healer, I think MF and her will be a good fit.

 

Ray-Thank you for the link, I searched for some good sites to send her, this is most of what she needs. Figures, of all of the people that have photography sites, a fellow PNer has the best I've seen.

 

Kevin, I think the Blad is like IBM was, "Nobody was ever fired for buying IBM", lol. Personaly, I hope she chooses that, so I can borrow it! And from then on presents would be easy, another lens, a RRS macro focusing rail...a Gitzo...a ballhead...cha-ching...

 

Mike, she lives in the sticks in New Hampshire, me in Florida. I wish we could visit a store together.

 

Friedmann, the M6, 7 are definite options, she is looking for a lightweight packable camera. She's a strong gal, but I've lugged a M and C645 kit, and have missed shots at the end of the day because I was just beat from carrying it for 10 hours.

 

Thank you Lauren for the suggestions. I the M330 stuff is cheap, I may throw one in for her to try, and she can send it back for me to try also! The most fun part of giving someone a present is to pick it out for the person, what they want, not what you want to give. I'll have her look at http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/gindex.html, and we'll talk for a few more hours. She may really end up liking an old ZI 6x9 folder, who knows? It will be fun to explore with her, even by phone.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to answer another "which camera" question so kindly and thoughtfully. In a week or so, I'll come back and post what she decided on.

 

~michael

[erik_l.]

Michael,

 

I would buy her a Hasselblad, for the single reason that it will likely end up staying in the family, and when the time is right, she can hand it down to one of her children. It seems like over time it will be the last MF camera standing (spare parts, robust design, etc.).

 

Not to mention the joy she will get from using it until that time.

[q.g._de_bakker]

An H3D-39 is the thing she will both want and like most.

[carl_becker2]

Most certainly a Hassy would be a system to grow into. Simple at first. I just picked up a Bronica RF 645, several at KEH. It looks to be a great camera. Light, simple and well built. Twin lens camera's would be a great learning tool also.

[dave_redmann]

<I>What MF Camera would you buy your daughter?</I><P>

 

Well, my daughter is about to turn six. Her prior photographic experience is with disposable cameras and a Walgreen's $9.99 near-disposable. So based on her photographic experience and ability, and responsibility, I would say a Holga.<P>

 

I am only half being silly. Without knowing much about your daughter, especially her photographic experience and interests, it's hard to say. The "as she starts a family" part seems largely at odds with the "she would like the slowing down . . . She is the meditative sort" justification of medium format. In my experience, kids mean fast shooting, especially in the first few years.<P>

 

All that said, assuming she isn't likely to want to print larger than 16x20, a 645 camera seems like a good choice <I>among medium format cameras</I>. For me, one big point would be whether the sync-at-any-speed leaf shutter (Bronica ETRSi) would be a significant advantage over the 1/60s limit or whatever of the more common focal-plane-shutter systems (Mamiya M645 and Pentax 645, each with a few comparatively rare, expensive, and clunky leaf-shutter lenses). For kids, the leaf shutter would be nice for outdoor fill flash with wider aperatures.

[allison_reese2]

hassy!, hassy!, hassy!...oy!, oy!, oy!...hassy!, oy!...hassy!, oy!...hassy!, oy!

[q.g._de_bakker]

H3D-39...!

[marek_fogiel]

Michael,

The best way to start off in photography for someone keen on learning, is in the simple way: one body, one lens, one film, portability, handheld shooting, a chance to judge the composition before you shoot (look at the forming image with both eyes).

 

You get all that in a Rolleiflex, although a Yashica mat will do, if you fear the Rollei is too expensive to risk it with a kid.

 

If she is the careful type, get her one with the 75 3.5 Planar ( it is lighter than the 2.8), HP5 for the darkroom work or XP2 for scanning, and she will experience the photography at max levels from the start. If it turns out a success, she will decide herself what system she likes for other options

[richardw]

The simpler, the better to have the contemplative side of shooting.

 

Besides she learns about EV values, distance, DOF better than with her p&s. For taking pictures of the kids the p&s will suit better in the beginning (kids are fast).

 

but she shall decide, as far as its in the budget, it will be HER camera. If she'd like a Rolleiflex and you buy her a Hassy, both cameras have superb lenses but will she be happy with a zeiss-hassy planar instead of a zeiss-rollie planar?.

[mizore]

I'm with those who suggest a twin lens reflex. The Hassie is a sexy beast, but it's a bit much

to backpack with. I'm a happy owner of a 1955 Minolta Autocord and got my niece a

somewhat later model (in worse shape) for this past Christmas. Rolleinars are good close-up

lenses, and used filters are out there. The Rolleiflexs and Rolliecords are classic cameras and

more available in good shape than the Autocords. The TL reflexes can perch happily on

lighter tripods and do wonderful landscapes, city street scenes, and with the Rolleinars, close

ups of the flowers.<div></div>

[wayne_crider4]

I think it all comes down to the hands and what fits best. I'm also a proponent of having a camera that can easily be used for flash photography without a lot of hassle. Since most MF cameras need an add on flash, you might think along the lines of the Mamiya or Fuji rangefinders. I'm sure it would be an easier transition for her to shoot a camera that mimics the 35mm style and that would allow her to snap her friends with incorporated flash. I would not buy her anything like a 645 or blad unless she had it in her hands as a rental for a week.

[john_elder1]

Rollei TLR Model F 3.5

[michael_dimarzio]

Thank you for the additional answers. I'll also send her this URL so she can see the dilema (sp?) and choices she faces.

 

Ah a Rollei TLR, if I got that for her she just might end up with my Contax 645, 5 lenses, 3 backs, extension tubes, an extra body and a Mecablitz, and me with a Rollei. :)

[l_a_k_h_i_n_d_e_r]

I think a camera is just a tool. If you want a film camera, then please choose it based on what is suitable to somebody's taste. Looks like you are personally a fan of MF equipment (just like I am). Why not choose a 35mm camera; Afterall, most people have only owned 35mm cameras so far, and produced memorable photos!