Friend's D40 Taking clearer shots than my D80!?

[cindyinatlanta]

A friend of mine and I made a trip to the zoo to practice what we had learned

in photo class. She has a new D40, I have a new D80. We both had a 55 - 200mm

DX VR Zoom on our cameras. Both were set to totally automatic for comparison

purposes. I was very upset to see that her photos were clearer, crisper and

had more intense color than mine. I thought the D80 was supposed to take

pictures at least on par with the D40, if not better. Could I possibly have a

setting modified that I don't know about that is causing my pix to look kind of

muddy? I know this isn't the best of lenses, but was the constant between us.

 

Cindy

[john schroeder]

She might have had the saturation, sharpness, contrast, or all three turned up. You might have been shooting at a lower ISO which could deliver slightly lower contrast. There are many variables that could account for the differences. The D80 could also default to less aggressive settings that the D40 because it's designed for a more experienced shooter.

[alvin_wong]

<P>It could be anything ranging from handholding technique, differences in the zoom setting, to different light levels. In particular, telephotos require faster shutter speeds if you want to taken sharp pictures with a handheld camera.</P>

<P>It would be best if you could look at your pictures and determine what is lacking before attributing the difference to the camera bodies.</P>

[mjt]

hi Cindy ...

 

the ONLY way to compare the two is to set everything manually on both - if you set both to "automatic", y'all have nothing to properly compare.

 

you should both decide on an ISO to shoot at, WB, and then shutter speed and f/stop. switch cameras too ... i'm not sure what "clearer shots" mean (and no one else does either without posting samples).

 

can you post samples from both - remember, a picture is worth a thousand words (for analysis :)

 

and BTW, shoot RAW for best comparison. and remember to set EV on the D80 anywhere from -0.3 to -0.7.

 

regards, michael

[tonybeach]

"You might have been shooting at a lower ISO which could deliver slightly lower contrast."

 

Ignore that, it's plain wrong.

 

"The D80 could also default to less aggressive settings that the D40 because it's designed for a more experienced shooter."

 

I doubt this also.

 

A more likely explanation might be lenses or John's earlier suggestion about settings. My own suspicion is that the handholding technique in conjunction with VR (or lack thereof) is a likely culprit. John may also be on to something with the lower ISO, with the D40 minimum ISO being a stop faster than the D80 minimum ISO.

 

One last question would be RAW or JPEG? I suspect since you said everything was automatic that you were probably shooting in RAW, which would implicate Image Optimization settings. If you were shooting in RAW, then converters and workflow need to be considered.

[cindyinatlanta]

I guess I was really looking for what the differences are in the 2 cameras as far as the default settings. We literally took the same shot from the same position within seconds of each other to compare. Heaven knows I've not mastered the settings on the D80 yet. So, that could be the issue. Comparing pix, what is lacking is saturation, sharpness and contrast when compared to the D40. I'll check the related settings. I'm new to digital SLR's' so, right now, I don't know what I don't know. Thanks for some direction on what to do. I KNOW this is a great camera. I'm just not a great enough photograper yet.

[mjt]

> One last question would be RAW or JPEG? I suspect since you said everything was automatic that you were probably shooting in RAW, which would implicate Image Optimization settings. If you were shooting in RAW, then converters and workflow need to be considered.

 

Anthony ... "automatic" does not imply RAW, but JPG. a camera reset results in JPG output.

 

regards, michael

[cindyinatlanta]

I forgot to mention that I was shooting in JPEG, not RAW. We both used the same lens with VR. So, it could very well be hand holding technique. I'll have to read up on EV settings to understand the thinking behind setting the EV from -.3 to -0.7. Thanks.

[curritch]

My first attempts with the 55-200 DX VR were pretty awful. Until I learned to hold off until the VR function took hold.

 

But could it not be also that one lens is just better even though they are the same model number? Maybe you should swap lenses and/or cameras to zero in where the differences are.

[joseph_smith3]

Were all images processed the same way and viewed under exactly the same conditions? As already mentioned, there are too many variables going on here during the image capture stage and no one has mentioned whether the images were processed using the same software and the same techniques, and viewed the same--on paper? on a pc monitor? the same monitor? Joe Smith

[mjt]

hey Cindy ...

 

the D80 is a, for a lack of a better term, "upper level enthusiast" body, similar to the D200, but only lacking some specific features. it is a very capable camera that has to be learned. there are many nuances that you need to be aware of (learn) to get the best results.

 

some consider the D80 on par with the D200 - however, there are some items that the D200 has that the D80 lacks.

 

there have been times when i've been viewing photos from the D80 and D200 and could not tell which photo came from which. (i have the D70s/D80/D200/D2x/Fuji S5/Mamiya MF).

 

there are sooooo many variables that enter into the picture [sic] that it is difficult to analyze a batch of photos based only on the written word. samples will reveal all.

 

regards, michael

[mjt]

Curtis sparks a thought ...

 

of course, the "hand holding" could be it (shake) ... however, there are some bodies that have a backfocusing issue. that is why i would recommend to swap cameras and allow the other person to shoot the other's camera. you might even switch lenses.

 

but be forwarned, backfocusing can be a culprit ... although i would first investigate hand-holding first.

 

regards, michael

[tonybeach]

Michael wrote:

 

Anthony ... "automatic" does not imply RAW, but JPG. a camera reset results in JPG output.

 

My reply:

 

Thank you Michael, that was a mistake; I meant to say JPEG and not RAW.

[bill_keane2]

Cindy, not everyone likes him, but KenRockwell.com has a free downloadable PDF D80 guide. If you set yours up like he likes his, you'll have more than enough pop to your images. One thing -- I'd use the best quality JPEG setting, not the mid-level he prefers to save memory...

[albertdarmali]

One thing in photography you have to keep in mind is, just because you have a better camera than the other person, doesn't mean that you can take better pictures than his/her.

 

But anyway, as been mentioned before, it can be setting, your technique, or my addition - it can even be the metering you use or the metering behaviour of the camera. Who knows maybe your camera slightly over exposes resulting in slightly washed colour (or in your case, less intense colour)

 

If it's a practice session (not something that you can only take ONCE), I recommend using the camera in full manual so you can be more familiar with exposure and the camera itself.

[mike_friloux]

I'm not sure if this works for all photos and software combinations.

 

But I have found that if you right click on the photo (file) and look under properties > advanced - you can view the actually setting used to take the photo, shutter speed, etc. This may be a quick way to check their photo settings vs. your settings. Have them email the photo to you and compare. FYI. Mike.

[ShunCheung]

Cindy, unless you can post a few sample images for a side-by-side comparison, all we can do here is to speculate. Most likely, your friend's in-camera settings are different from yours.

<P>

If you are serious about photography, learn to shoot RAW and fine tune things on the computer. Just by turning up the contrast, increase saturation, brighten the dark areas ... can make a big difference.

<P>

The image immediately below and the one I am attaching at the bottom are from exactly the same RAW original, so there is not even any camera or lens difference. The bottom one is unedited and has a lot of dull, gray areas. Some small adjustments in PhotoShop can make a big difference.

<P>

<CENTER>

<IMG WIDTH=550 SRC="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/6079338-md.jpg">

</CENTER><div></div>

[bsd230]

I would try comparing both from a tripod and swap lenses to see if there is any difference. If you are getting muddy or soft looking photos where nothing is in focus, chances are that it is probably camera shake. If you really examine the photos and notice that there is an area that is sharp but it's not your subject then there may be a problem with the lens or the AF of the camera and may need to be calibrated. If your images are not sharp shooting still subjects from a tripod, then chances are there is something wrong with the equipment.

 

There shouldn't be huge differences between the 2 cameras shooting jpeg but I would image that the D40 is geared more towards that where the D80 like the D200 is geared towards users that will shoot RAW and post process.

[Jerry_]

For what it is worth: the D40 has a 'brighter' LCD view on the back of the camera. Is that what "looked" much brighter than what the D80 displayed? (You need to look at the two images on a computer to see if the difference is there or not!)<div></div>

[michael s.]

A couple important points have been made.

 

First, it's entirely possible that the default jpeg processing in the D40 has been "cranked up" a bit on the assumption -- probably a valid one, I'd say -- that users of that body, at least at the very beginning of their ownership, will be more likely to go straight from camera output to print, or email or internet posting.

 

The D80, which is not Nikon's so-called "entry level dslr" but rather a 10 mpxl body, offers some other features. Nikon may believe that D80 purchasers are more likely to be interested in RAW files, more post-processing responsibility, etc.

 

Second, while the straight-out-of-the-camera jpeg comparisons at default settings (assuming you and your classmate were using default settings) can be interesting, they're only important if that's where your photography will begin and end. From your comments above, Cindy, it seems apparent that you'll be going further, and hopefully much further, which is good.

 

To reinforce Shun's comment, below is one photo.<div></div>

[michael s.]

And this is the very same photo.<div></div>

[bob_flood1]

Cindy - you didn't say how you compared the images. Were they compared by looking at the LCD on the cameras, or on the screen of a single computer? If you used the LCD, the friend's D40 may just have a bit better display on the camera back.

 

If this isn't it, then it looks like you need to do a bit of reading in the manual and then run some controlled experiments to see what effects the adjustments can have and which you like and which you don't. Your goal should be to get images they way you like them - it's the only reason we all do this. :^)

[elliot1]

As I have stated in previous posts, my d40 produces better pictures out of the camera than my d200. The d80 and d200 are basically the same camera so your statement does not surprise me.

 

A friend of mine was so impressed with my d40 that he bought one (d40x) and practically gave away his d80 to me. I have just started using it and while impressed, your statement is correct and validated with me - the d40 takes better pictures out of the camera than the d80. So what.

 

Each camera has its intended user and use. I am not going to start shooting weddings or other events I shoot with the d40 (even though I really could - it is a great camera).

 

MJ T

"the ONLY way to compare the two is to set everything manually on both - if you set both to "automatic", y'all have nothing to properly compare. "

 

You are partially correct. I have taken at least a couple of thousand images with the d40 and the pictures just look better out of the camera than those of my d200. I have done the tripod/manual settings comparison between the two cameras (d40/d200) and come up with the same results as Cindy.

 

Anthony

"My own suspicion is that the handholding technique in conjunction with VR (or lack thereof) is a likely culprit. John may also be on to something with the lower ISO, with the D40 minimum ISO being a stop faster than the D80 minimum ISO."

 

There is a better explanation. Nikon just made the d40 a better camera for images straight out of the camera than the d50/d70/d80/d200 cameras. It is, afer all, several years newer than the d200 and a newer design to the d80 (which is based on the d200).

 

Cindy, I do have one suggestion for you. I would suggest you do one more test to determine if you actually have a lens problem. Set up your camera on a tripod, take a picture with your lens and then take the identical picture with identical settings with your friend's lens. Compare the two images. If you see a difference in sharpness, your lens may need to be serviced. I have the 18-200 and was never happy with the sharpness of it. After almost a year of minimal use, I was going to sell it. But after reading how some people were getting great results, I decided to send it to Nikon for service. Sure enough, when I got it back, it was like a totally different lens - the images were as sharp as my pro lenses. I kept it and now use it regularly for just about everything except my paid events.

 

If this is the case with yours, your images will be a little sharper after the lens is serviced. But the d40 will still take better shots out of the camera with regard to color and contrast, and perhaps even sharpness, out of the camera. If you don't want to do post processing, you might need to follow in my friend's footsteps - sell your d80 and get a d40!

 

Nikon really has a winner with the d40. When Nikon brings out their next pro or semi-pro camera, it will likely have similar technology to the d40, improved, of course. What will we all do with our extra time when the images, like those of the d40, don't need post processing?

[bill_ackerman]

It isn't always the camera. The relative skills of the two photographers can make a lot of difference. My son is pro photographer. All of the shots he takes with my D80 are far better than the same shots I take with his D2Xs. In fact, shots he takes with my little Canon point & shoot are better than ones I take with my D80! As I have learned from him to relax and hold the camera steadier, the sharpness of my D80 images has improved.

[patertech]

Why don't you compare shooting data using Picture Project or Opanda IExif this will eliminate a lot of variables. If the settings are the same I would assume picture quality should be the same except composition.