Which M body to buy...

[david_crist]

Hi to everyone. This post is going to be a bit long winded, so be forewarned.

I have ben using Leica RF's for about 13 years, and currently own a 2005 black

paint MP, a 1971 silver chrome M5, a 35mm asph summicron, a 90mm elmar

macro(because it collapses-great for hiking), a 28mm Voigtlander ultron, and a

21mm Voigtlander skopar. All have given me great service. I want to get

another body/lens combo, and have about $4500 to spend. I have some thoughts,

and would welcome any and all comments from this forum.

 

1. PopFlash has the Leica starter kit for $4200. It seems a fantastic deal,

with a black chrome M7 and black 50mm summicron, plus a $500 voucher for a

future Leica purchase. With the 3 year passport warranty, if you subtract the

$500 and the list price for the summicron(around $1595) the body is only $2200.

In the Leica world, that is a deal. My drawbacks: I am luke warm to black

chrome, and the M7 reliability issue(I consider Leica in terms of decades of

service, like my M5).

2. A used MP3 in silver chrome, around $3195, plus a used silver 50mm new model

Elmar. This is one looker of a setup! Anyone have the MP3? Having never used

a M2, I wonder how hard it is to deal with the frame number wheel. Of course I

lose the passport warranty, but I gain total mechanical reliability.

3. A used mint M6 titanium, and maybe a black 50mm 2.0 voigtlander Heliar. I

know people will shoot me, but I like the Heliar wide open for it's clasic look,

and it sharpens/gets more contrasty as you stop down, a nice feature. A

question: Does the M6 titanium(the first one, not the TTL) have a brass top?

While I had no problems with my Black M6 years ago, I go to very humid areas and

do not want a Zinc top cover. I would use black lenses with this setup. This

leaves a lot of cash for a extra lens or 2.

4. Last, an M7 al-la-carte. My configuration came to $4100. A silver M7, MP

thumb advance and controls, MP top cover lettering(but angled re-wind crank),

.72 VF and 6 frame lines, and red leather covering. A looker, and I can just

qualify for the $500 voucher(it ends 7-1-07) and it has a passport warranty.

Granted, this is a pure vanity purchase....

 

Anyway, let me know what you think, use in your photos, and any alternatives.

Like I said, long winded thread....

[ronald_moravec1]

I see you value good looks. Buy what pleases you.

 

The frame counter is not hard to reset. Just turn it to -1 and start. If you forget, go to the film runs out and do not force it.

 

I have lots of M`s and a few screwmounts, all different vintages. The pics are the same from all. All but the M3 have .72 finders. Then finders are used for what is not accomadated for sometimes for ease of use.

 

I use lenses from an uncoated 3.5 Elmar to current 50 2.8. So if you like the classic look, get one lens that gives it.

 

I would not pay a premium for any collector/titanium model unless it was for display.

[jack_palmer]

My vote is for the MP3 in Chrome. A beautiful camera.I have an.85 Chrome MP and would add an MP3 if I had the funds.

[paul_neuthaler]

Be smart: get the archetypal true Leica -- a mint IIIF with the archetypal Leica lens -- a 50mm 3.5 Elmar!<div></div>

[paul_neuthaler]

and here's the camera. . .<div></div>

[paul_neuthaler]

. . .and the only accessary you need<div></div>

[elmarfudd]

Paul, have you made a macro or hotkey on your computer yet that automatically recommends a IIIF+Elmar to posters? : )

[Rob F.]

David: Since you listed several wide-angle lenses, have you considered a wide-angle camera? You didn't say whether your MP is a .72 or .58. I really like shooting my .58 Leicas with the 28mm, and even the 35mm (I wear glasses). If you don't have a .58, you might consider that.

 

Since you like using a 21 and a 28, would you want to consider adding a 24 or 25? I am finding my 24 to be more "right" in many situations than the 21. Granted, carrying a 21, 24, 28, and 35 is not a minimalist approach. Often recently I leave the 21 home, and go out with the 24 and a Tri-Elmar, when I don't need something faster.

 

Since you use wide-angle lenses, do you think you might like a Bessa R4? It's not a Leica, and won't have titanium, script engravings, etc; but it has bright-line frames for 21, 25, 28, 35, and 50mm lenses. Think of it! Five focal lengths and no need for auxiliary finders!

 

Outside of that possibility, I think that for your requirements I would pick up a second MP body, perhaps with a different finder magnification than what you have. High quality, no zinc, and not as costly as an a la carte model, so more $$ left for lenses. And don't forget the Zeiss ZM range of lenses.

[paul_neuthaler]

James, there's nothing worse than a screwed-up, I mean SCREWMOUNT, zealot!

[rjm photo]

Good one Paul.

[summitar]

This is from Paul Neuthaler's long lost twin, separated at birth. I am partial to IIIf's also, whether ST or not. I also love the M3 that Paul sold me a while back. I am not ALL LEICA ALL THE TIME, but they are at the head of the line. Actually, since I never use flash with Leica (who can find flash bulbs any more?), the IIIc is not too shabby either. Just missed out on an excellent IIIg a few weeks ago, and the anguish has not subsided.

 

http://cameraquest.com/3frdst.htm

[kentigern]

It's not clear what you want to do with this new camera. All the models you suggest are new (relatively). Have you considered one of the older ones - M3 or M2? You could find a nice one then have it properly serviced and that would leave quite sufficient to get some really lovely lenses. You could even have a nice red leather cover fitted through the specialists. It would facilitate a different approach to photography due to the lack of internal metering.

[keith_lubow]

Get rid of all that useless junk and get a IIIa with a Summar.

 

;)

[keith_lubow]

...but seriously...

 

I would sell off the M5 and both of the Voigtlander lenses, add the money from the sales (probably at least $1,500) to your budget of $4,500, and get an M8 and 50mm lens. If you are going to have a modern-day Leica, might as well make it the digital model, as the film ones are no better than the old ones (maybe worse), and a much worse bang for the buck.

 

It's fun spending other peoples' money!

 

Keith

[nzdavid]

I also reckon you should at least check out a mint M3. Plus a mint 50 - either the original

50 'cron rigid, a collapsible Elmar, new or old, and - if you can find it - the 50 year

anniversary 'cron that looks like the old one. For your budget you can afford a splendid

set-up that is collectible, aesthetically pleasing yet usable!

[david_crist]

Well, I made my mind up! I took to heart some of the answers/observations here: What kind of pictures do I do, and would AE help that? I went to a fair and found that AE would of helped a lot with the ever-changing light there....it would of speeded up the ability to do the pictures. And I REALLY needed a top notch 50mm lens(but I will get the 50mm 2.0 Heliar also for it's effects wide open). And I really wanted a Leica in the fashion of the M4(angled re-wind crank) but with the M6 type finish that is missing from my collection(my M5 is silver chrome, the MP black paint--only leaves black chrome in the regular finishes). Since a zinc top is really out for me, and I wanted at least some mechanical backup in my new body, the M7 won. With it's 3 year warranty, if it has bugs, Leica can work it out. And price was also a factor: the M7 starter kit is a real value, after subtracting the selling price of the summicron(around $1500) and the $500 voucher, it's like getting the M7 new for $2195!! You just can't beat that in the current market. The M8 is a non-runner...the mag factor is just a real turn off, as is the problems and the Mega pixel count for that camera is too low for my taste. When the M9 comes I will re-think it. So everyone who thinks I am afraid of technology: I use film for capture, but Photoshop elements 5, a film scanner, and a BIG canon 13x19 printer for my print outs. Really love that set-up. And I like to do long hiking trips(4-6 weeks) where having a totally battery dependent camera is really a problem-MP or M5 is a great b/u to the M7. I have 100 SR44 cells in my fridge from SR44.com-enough to see me through 2012 or so for all 3 cameras. Even if the M7 needs cells every 4 months or so(Sr44 can be used, but the lithium last longer). Makes the battery issue easy(I converted the M5 to the Sr44). Now to plot getting the 135 elmar, 75 lux, and 24 elmarit...

[torben_daltoft]

Congrats; the M7 is the top (film-)leica. And I agree, the 135 is a must, as it opens new opportunities (and still is manageable on a .72 vf.); btw I have an Elmar FS

[35mmdelux]

MP chrome

[mervyn_yan]

MP Black

[aplumpton]

Get a Like New M4-2 or M4-P from a collector. Great looks, if that is what you

are after, and especially so with the little 35mm f2, without its square shade.

 

 

Maybe it is also the presence of Gutta Percha covering and those four screw

ends on the front (absent in later models), and the way Leica has placed the

name and model number on the front. The recessed VF window is also

special.

 

 

These great looks are not what Leica photographers really care about, but for

looks, this is the best in my mind, and not expensive (even for a collector

condition example). The reason is that this camera effuses Leica engineering

status and not just pretty colour coverings.

[michael_londarenko]

David,

 

You might find this thread helpful -

 

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00L4vx <http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00L4vx>

 

 

Although I don't really understand why exactly you need that extra body. I bought MP-3 recently and really like the fact that it's all mechanical, all-metal, including frame counter. External frame counter is super easy to operate by the way and I find it more convenient than built-in one. Besides, I like when I have absolutely full control over everything :)

[keith_lubow]

Ok, don't take this the wrong way, but I can't agree with your decision. I know it doesn't matter whether I agree or not, but I am just honestly saying what I think.

 

What you have decided on is a good deal compared to what else is out there at this moment in the world of new cameras, but not a good deal in the grand scheme of things. A vintage body will never go down in value. Once you walk out the door with your M7, it's worth quite a bit less. You already have an MP. If you need TTL or auto exposure, or even a meter for that matter, you are using the wrong camera anyhow, in my opinion. Why buy a brand new camera that is virtually no different than what was available 50 years ago, at over three times the cost, and which is a bad investment in terms of resale, should you ever lose your mind and decide to sell? Why not dump the paperweight (M5) and turn it into something significantly different than what you already have, meaning either a new digital or an old thinkin-with-yer-noggin model? To own an MP and an M7 is very redundant. I guess Thorstein Veblen was right. 10 megapixels not enough? Please. I do just fine with a 4 megapixel SLR with godawful noise. You can handle a 10 megapixel Leica.

[memphis1]

get a beater m3 and spend the rest on good glass

[paul_neuthaler]

Get the 1952 IIIF and a 1952 Chateau Petrus!

[laurentvuillard]

Rob F. is right if you wear specs and want wide angle buy a 0,58 it's far easier to frame, any decent second hand M6 will do. Look at the film pressure plate to see if it's showing the wear from many films if not buy it!!