I want to love my D80 as much as you do...please HELP!

[melissa_brott]

This is my second post in a month about my new D80.... I appreciate all the

responses from my last post. :)

 

I bought my D80 in April to replace my D50. My main reason for upgrading was

more mega pixels, ease of use with ISO and Metering buttons on the body, and the

improved LDC preview and preview zoom. But since I have bought the camera I have

yet to have the consistent, good crisp, properly exposed pictures that I had

with my D50. I feel like it's very unpredictable... one day great, the next the

pictures are all noisy and "soft". I don't pretend to understand everything

about digital photography, but I'm also not clueless. If I was able to get great

pictures with the D50 why then can't I get great pictures with the D80 at the

same settings?

 

To add to my frustration, a friend of mine recently bought the new D40X loves

it! She gets great pictures, consistently and without a lot of editing in

Photoshop after the fact. We even did a "test" the other day. We shot the same

subjects with the D50, D40X and the D80 and the D80 pictures are the worst of

the bunch! Dark, grainy, not crisp, etc... the D40X are really nice and almost

ready to print. Check them out on my flickr account

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brottfamily5/ and see for yourself. Now I know it

seems silly but I'm thinking of switching to the D40X.

 

I guess my main question is... Why don't I love my D80 as much as you all do? I

want to love it, I really do... I just don't know what I should be doing

differently. I've read so many threads on this forum that rave and rave about

it... I just can't believe that I'm the only person with this issue. Does anyone

else notice the noise, lack of sharpness and inconsistent metering? What have to

done to overcome it and love it! Please HELP! Thanks!!!!

 

Melissa :)

[Jerry_]

With all the 'menu' settings that can be tinkered with, it would near impossible to answer your question. One suggestion, re-set the camera to 'out-of-the-box' condition, then see what happens. [One thing, for example, exposure compensation with the matrix meter selected will result in generally strange results.]<div></div>

[fred aspen]

The exposures appear decent to me. When you ran your comparison tests, were you using the same lens on the different bodies to rule out lens variation/problems?

 

Can't tell about softness/noise from the photos on flickr - too small.

[hiro]

Hi Melissa.

 

There will be other more qualified advice here but here's my two cents. When I went from D50 to D80, I noticed a similar thing. After a little research, I accounted it for two things. In camera optimization(D50 is tuned more aggressively) and a higher mega pixel count resulting in a softer looking image at the same viewing size on my monitor.

 

I would try doing a custom shooting mode and turn up the in-camera sharpening and maybe saturation before giving up on it. You are going to lose the benefit of auto focus with some of Nikon's better value lenses; 35mm f2, 50mm 1.8, 85mm 1.8, etc.

[elliot1]

Are you printing your pictures as they come right out of the camera or doing post processing. This will affect how you should have your camera settings.

 

I have my d200 set so I can adjust what I need to during post processing but print my d40 pictures pretty much how they are right out of the camera. I could adjust the in-camera settings on my d200 to make the pictures more direct-printer friendly but I choose not to.

[dan park]

The anti aliasing filter on the d80/d200 is stronger than the d50 resulting in images that appear less sharp. I own both the d50 and d200 and have noticed this. Also the noise from the d80/d200 sensor is considerably greater (even at iso 400) making the d50 a better camera for low light. Use raw and post process in NC to get the best results out of both cameras.

[melissa_brott]

"The exposures appear decent to me. When you ran your comparison tests, were you using the same lens on the different bodies to rule out lens variation/problems?"

 

Yes it was the same lens and settings just different bodies.

 

 

"Are you printing your pictures as they come right out of the camera or doing post processing. This will affect how you should have your camera settings."

 

I do post process most of my pictures in Adobe Elements 3.0. But I'm finding that my D80 pictures really need a lot more "help" to be printable.

 

Thanks for all your posts and suggestions.

 

Hiro- Can I ask you... what did you set your saturation and sharpening to on your D80 to make it more like the D50. Thanks. :)

[alan_olander1664878205]

You picked somewhat of a difficult test shot in that the background is very bright compared to the shaded area. Each camera may meter a little differently, and in this case, your main subject is a little under exposed because of the background.

[melissa_brott]

I agree it may not have been the most perfect of "test settings" but I wanted to see how each camera would do in low/shaded light because that's where I notice the most inconsistent results with the D80. The point is... the D40X did a really great job compared to the D80, even in those less than perfect conditions. That has me wondering... why can't the D80 be as predictable as a "beginner DSLR"? Know what I mean?

[bsd230]

Were the test shots in RAW or JPEG?

[melissa_brott]

They were shot in JPEG.

[marypar4]

Go to kenrockwell.com and use his settings for D80..they work!

[bsd230]

I would maybe try center weighted or spot metering. The D80 as well as the D200 will usually error on the side of underexposure. If you notice the D80 is the only photo that preserved the detail in the street which is one the brightest areas. The person in the photo does look a little soft in the eyes but they are also moving so it's hard to tell if it could be subject movement that is causing that. I would check it on a stationary target from a tripod using the self timer to eliminate all possibilities of movement, then if it still looks soft you may want to send it to Nikon to check the AF.

[melissa_brott]

Thanks I'll check out kenrockwell.com. :)

 

Usually I do use spot metering and program mode, but for the "test" we wanted to see each camera in auto. Mostly because we wondered if our D80 noise and soft issues were user error. So by testing them all on Auto at the same ISO etc... it seemed like a good test. Although the little girl moved the mom stayed still for all the pictures :)

I have thought about doing stationary tests, but I don't usually shoot stationary objects. I shoot kids mainly and families. Lots of movement and sometimes not perfect lighting. I wanted to know which camera worked the "best" in those settings. From the looks of these tests the D40X did, but after reading so many posts with raves about the D80 I wasn't curious what it is that everyone LOVES about it and why I don't ?

I'll try the suggested settings and see if that helps. Still kind of leaning towards ditching the D80 for the D40X and keeping my D50 for my 50mm f1.8 lens. Thoughts?

[tonybeach]

Melissa wrote:

 

I do post process most of my pictures in Adobe Elements 3.0. But I'm finding that my D80 pictures really need a lot more "help" to be printable.

 

My reply:

 

If you are shooting JPEG, then PP is made much more cumbersome than it would be by shooting RAW and using a good converter as the first and most important step in your post capture image processing. The camera's ASIC is a poor substitute for what can be done on your computer and you won't have saturation and blocked shadows baked into the data.

 

My thinking is that since you want to take family snaps with no genuine PP, you should listen to the voice in your head and get a D40x instead of struggling with your D80.

[bruce_rubenstein___nyc]

I looked at the shots and primary difference is the white balance (WB), and it's cooler on the D80 shot. The next time you shoot with the subjects in the shade, try setting the WB to shade. Some fill flash will also warm things up.

 

The default Color Modes of the D80 and D50/D40 are different. The D80 default is Mode Ia and the D50/D40 is Mode III. Mode III is more color saturated.

[andrew_cale]

Melissa,

All the pics look pretty good, but here are my observations.

#1 All three photos are different in one way or another (either aperture, shutter speed, focal length, or composition).

#2 The White balance appears different (which is completely expected when you are in Auto mode).

#3 The D80 pic appears to be slightly more saturated (although it is very hard to be precise with pictures that small/resolution)

#4 If this shot was taken in A mode, I would have retaken it with +.3 Exp comp.

#5 Leave Auto mode for your friends and relatives who are taking your picture...that's about all it's good for. I find "A" mode works best for me 90% of the time.

#6 I agree with poster above...WB is a little cool.

#7 How much do you want to sell it for? I need a second.

Cheers,

Andy

[melissa_brott]

Andrew thanks for your observations. But again I wasn't trying to do a formal test, really just wanted to see what each camera did on auto- curious what the factory had in mind for no-brain point and shoot pictures. I was just surprised that the D40X did so well.

 

I'm still not 100% convinced one way or the other...

Honestly I LOVE my D50 and wish they made a D50X instead of the D40X. Just really would love to get larger prints with my D50 otherwise it's been so good to me and I love it!

 

Appreciate all the posts!

[anthony_bez]

"would love to get larger prints with my D50 otherwise it's been so good to me and I love it!"

 

The difference in resolution between the D50 6mp and D80 10mp is relatively small. What size print would you like to make?

 

Yes you probably would be happier with the D40x, the D80 is a more capable camera but it needs some post processing to obtain the best results. The D40 is designed to work like your D50 and produce excellent images direct from the camera.

[bsd230]

One thing worth mentioning is that the D80 and the especially the D200 are geared towards people who shoot primarily in RAW. Shoot both cameras in RAW and compare. There are too many variables in JPEGs. I don't mean to dwell on the test method it's really not about that but JPEG eliminate so much information you basically cut the information in half, not to mention all the in camera adjustments that will affect the image. RAW adds nothing to the photo that is why it's best to shoot Auto white balance in RAW because it doesn't matter you can change it in Post conversion.

[dave wyman]

What is the value of these test, Melissa? You aren't in competition with your friend who has a different camera body.

 

My suggestion: stop the testing. Make photographs, not test shots. And set your D80 to Vivid Color, and Auto White Balance, -3.

 

And stop the testing.

[johnw63]

Dave,

 

She is TESTING, because the more expensive camera seems to give her poorer results than

she wants. Do you suggest she ignore this and just take pictures , reguardless of the

results !?

 

If you want to HELP her, then tell her which D80 settings will give her BETTER results than

the D40x.

[jill_mclean]

All

 

Such good info here, on a similar thread I was hoping you could also suggest what I might be doing wrong as I too dearly want to love my D80 but am becomming increasingly disillusioned as I just can't seem to get a decently focussed shot. I'm new to the digital scene having just upgraded from an F75 which was fantastic. The problem I am experiencing is a shadowing effect around areas of the image which is only visible when you close in on that specific area of the shot - when viewed normally it just looks out of focus.

 

Nikon have serviced lense (28-105mm) and camera and found no problems. I have been using in auto mode so far to see what it can do but don't know where to start on what could be wrong.

 

Assistance appreciated please.

 

Jilly

[melissa_brott]

Jill so glad to know that I'm not the only non-pro photographer that isn't in love with the D80. I took more pictures with it today and with my D50- same session, same lighting, same subjects (kids, moving, in the shade) and the D50 blew the D80 away! Again I'm not shooting in RAW and I pretty much shot in program and only change the metering,WB & ISO. Although I did switch to some of the settings Ken Rockwell suggested and that helped but I'm still not loving the results. I think I've concluded that from what everyone has said... the D80 is geared to pros shooting in RAW and with way more knowledge of exposures etc... than me. :)

 

Dave wrote:

 

"What is the value of these test, Melissa? You aren't in competition with your friend who has a different camera body."

 

No- she has the D80 too and bought the D40X... so we wanted to see how they compared. That's all. :)

 

Anthony wrote:

 

"The difference in resolution between the D50 6mp and D80 10mp is relatively small. What size print would you like to make?

 

Yes you probably would be happier with the D40x, the D80 is a more capable camera but it needs some post processing to obtain the best results. The D40 is designed to work like your D50 and produce excellent images direct from the camera."

 

I've done a lot of 16x20's with my D50 and they were beautiful, but I'd love to do even larger and maybe some canvas prints too.

I think I agree... the D40X might be the way to go if I'm looking for the extra pixels but not the extra work. No matter what I decide one thing is for sure...I'm not giving up my trusty D50...I LOVE that camera like most of you love your D80's. :)

 

Thanks again for all your posts and help!!! Best- Melissa :)

[frank kennedy]

The one thing you haven't tried yet that may help a lot is to set your exposure control to center weighted metering and not matrix metering.

 

If you have a fast desktop, you can do the following. Shoot RAW, Optimize Image: Normal, then, import to PictureProject using PP transfer, select all photos, then click auto adjust on the Picture dropdown. Go do your laundry or wash the dishes. (that's what I do) later I think you will be very pleased with the pictures. At this point you can select all and export them to JPG (dropdown menu). You can choose whatever size you like depending on your intended use.

 

I have a D50 and I'm very pleased with my pictures. I process them just as I've told you. I think they look a little better than jpg's from the camera.