Saying "sorry, no go" to client - have you done this?

[duchan]

To begin with, I have only three weddings to my credit, intending to secure one

wedding per month, as I don't have ambitions to cover weddings to make a

living. But in dealing with prospective clients, I want to appear

professional, and despite the low volume in weddings I've set for myself I

don't want to become known as a wedding photog who has a bad attitude. But on

to the situation: about ten days ago, I met with clients, and as we were

discussing issues pertaining to their upcoming wedding, I noticed that the wife-

to-be constantly henpecked the man whom she wants to marry, voicing moody

sentiments that made me wonder why the guy wants to marry her. Now, a

professional would most likely not think in such a manner, right? He or she

would focus on securing a binding contract, disregarding his or her feelings

toward someone who makes him feel personally uncomfortable, correct? But what

of bad vibes between client and photog? That surely is bound to happen at

times. The clients of my past three weddings were all very polite and

apparently not stressed out in their relationship, I felt comfortable in their

presence. Again - the professional: he or she would most likely just take the

discomfort. Granted, I may be very very wrong about this, but I'm confident

your answers will broaden my understanding and propose ideas that may lead to a

proper attitude in dealing with "problem clients". Regarding the henpecking

wife-to-be, well, she has not yet phoned me to say that she would hire me for

her June 2nd town hall wedding. And the absolute unprofessional addition to

that is - I kind of don't care if she doesn't call. But okay, there may be

many situations which have or could inspire you to turn down a client, would be

great if you'd share what those situations would be or have been, whereby I'm

mostly interested in dealing with the bad vibes issue. Thanks from

Duchan

Darmstadt, Germany

[roxyandkaidotcom]

If you don't feel comfortable with them, don't shoot the wedding. Go with your gut instinct -

it's almost always right!

 

Good luck :)

[brucecahn]

When I had a portrait studio(more than full time) I refused to photograph the people who were pushy or rubbed me the wrong way. What was the point of spending hours with someone who had no decency or manners? Life is short--you have to insist on enjoying it.

[l_e]

in my opinion you are VERY wrong. I don't want to take pictures of a couple who are going to break up a few years or months later and I am not in it just for the money. I enjoy it therefor I want the experience to be as enjoyable as possible. If it isn't going to be a good fit then the client is told up front that they should consider another photographer.

 

 

As for the henpecking... maybe the guy enjoys it. That could be the kind of relationship he seeks out for whatever reason.

[duchan]

L E, I hadn't thought of the guy perhaps actually enjoying the henpecking, it could be a possibility. Regarding weddings, I would always want them to be a harmonious occasion for ALL involved, and I've never heard of quarrels at weddings, though - it probably happened somewhere at some time...

D.

[ian_cooke1]

As long as they are not rude to you or cause hassles, then why does it matter if you think

she is "henpecking" to the groom? Maybe he likes that sort of thing. <p>

You're just doing a job, and while it might involve a lot of personal contact and

communication, you're not "really" a marriage counselor (although it may seem like we

need to fake it sometimes). Unless you truly don't like these people, then just suck it up

and do the job.<p> I know there are a lot of people here with other sources of income

and the

money isn't as important, but when photography is your family's only source of income,

it's hard to turn down a good day of work. <p>

As a professional, you will have to deal with all sorts of situations and personalities, and

being able to turn the potentially bad ones into good ones will often determine how

successful you will be in the long run.

[surfidaho]

You should Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anybody. Part of being professional is knowing how to say "No" politely to problem people. If she hen-pecks him, she will probably hen-peck you worse eventually.

 

People usually put their best foot forward at the initial interview. You generally find out what type of people they really are at the wedding. Consider yourself lucky to have been warned ahead of time.

 

Just tell them that something came up and you're busy that day. Don't tell them you're booked, because if they find out you're not, they'll be pissed. You don't owe them any explanation.

 

Later,

 

Paulsky

[dave_thielen]

Never shoot anybody that you don't like. The results will show. It took me a while to realize that I do not need to photography everybody that walks in the door. Rather, now I pick and choose the clients I want to deal with.

[chris_s___hampton_roads_va]

agreed.... your work will show it when you don't feel good about someone. Has nothing to do with attitude--I'd pass on it without a second thought if I got bad vides about them

[duchan]

Paul, you can't - or perhaps you surely can - imagine how bad I want to tell Hen-Lady that I've got plans, that is, should she find her way to the phone and give me a buzz and say that she's interested in me covering her wedding. Ian, I have genuine respect for photogs who make a living through their skills, I do not mean this to sound condescending. The reason I would not want to be a pro wedding photog is the fear of a stressy pace to my life. I need oasis of calm to regenerate from the everyday pressures. I admire the pro wedding photogs.

Greetings

D.

[duchan]

David & Chris: thanks for advice, within me I share your opinions. Now, I wonder what could happen if a wedding photog would turn away a client - would it not be so that it would shed somewhat a bad light on the photog when the client complains to whovever about how you turned him or her down, could not a turned-down client say negative things about the photog and so harm the photogs' reputation? It appears to be an issue with two sides to the medal.

Greetings

D.

[steve_levine]

I agree that a pain in the butt at the sales meeting is only likely to grow as the date nears, and arrives. However, If you needed to pay your studio rent, you might not be so picky.

 

 

 

 

If you can afford such fickleness, go for it.

[doug_axford1]

I have a list of 'red flags' that are my concerns when I meet with a couple the first time. Sometimes two 'red flags' will be offset by one good one (they want a huge package), sometimes not.

 

Perhaps she was simply having a bad day or they had a big fight on the way to your appt. I would not worry until she calls back. If the chemistry was bad enough, my response would be "I'm sorry, I feel that I'm just not the right person to photograph your wedding, the chemistry is wrong and I want you to have great photos, so please consider another photographer" She'll probably be mad. DO NOT elaborate any more than that, do not keep repeating it, do not make any more excuses, just say "thank you, I hope you have a fabulous wedding day" and hang-up.

 

BTW, Paulsky's advice may or may not be valid, depending upon circumstances and laws in your jurisdiction. In Canada, if I refused a gay wedding because they were gay, I'd be hauled into court without any chance of winning. Be careful how you say No.

[dave_thielen]

Duchan

 

Just tell them you no longer have their wedding day available. You don't have to tell them that the reason the day isn't available is because you don't want to shoot their wedding. You don't have to give them any reason at all, just that you are now busy on that day. They haven't put down a deposit to book the day, so you don't owe them any explaination at all.

[nancy s.]

Sometimes a read flag should be seen as a warning. while we don't always "like" our customers, we do have to work with them on their wedding day AND after their wedding day if they build a custom album etc.

 

I have noted that when a potential client complains a LOT through out the interview about other professionals they have dealt with my gut tells me to RUN (not walk). Folks who can say nothing good about other professionals (including photographers for other events they have had shot for them) are not going to say anything good about you either.

 

If a person really rubs you the wrong way it is sometimes wisdom to not take the job.

[fullmetalphotograper]

Here is my feeling on it. If they are wiling to meet your price and terms, I would do it. If they

try to haggle the price, cut your loses and say no thanks. If they wait forever and you still

have a very bad vibe, tell them you now have other commitments.

Bridezilas are not that uncommon, but the mother of the bride can be worst. That goes with

the territory, unfortunately. Good luck.

[doug_axford1]

Dave, the problem with that answer is that you then have to book a fictious job or go fishing. If she wants to be angry, she may have a friend call a week later and ask about the date. You're in trouble if you say you're available.

 

I like your answer if you are taking the day off, otherwise, better to be honest. If it's a short date wedding such as this, fishing is the best - take lots of beer.

[arthuryeo]

I don't see why a henpecky wife would make you want to drop their business. I think you're a little too picky. It may or may not even be a problem for the husband-to-be and that's none of your business, by the way.

 

Your business is to secure the contract and work as their photographer for the wedding. It's not like your clients are doing something illegal or immoral... then, you want to stay away. Henpecking is not immoral or illegal --- it's an issue between them, if it's even an issue.

[edlynn]

Duncan,

 

My feeling on this is, since you've stated that this is a sideline business for you, you should probably take a pass on this wedding. You simply need to tell the clients that you now have plans for that day.

 

Now, my advice for the future is: get a rolodex, and put all your competitors/colleagues in it. Take the time to go personally talk to each of them, so you can size up their personality. Believe me, they'll be doing the same thing to you. Now, having done that, the next time you get a vibe off a potential client that makes you think you wouldn't be the best photographer for them, you can think of who might be. Which photographer do you know of whose personality would click with the client, or who just wouldn't care about it and would do a good job anyhow? Tell the client you are busy that day, and recommend the other photographer to them. You'll be glad you did, because down the line the other photographer will more than likely return the favor.

[duchan]

Ralph: she haggled the price and it's been about ten days since she and I last talked, whereby she said she would get in touch. I'm thinking: if she doesn't like me, or if she didn't like the pics I presented, why doesn't she call and just tell me that she's not interested? My girlfriend said to me today, "She's letting you hang suspended in mid-air", and it is true, as I have no certainty as to whether she wants to hire me or not. Since she said she'd call, I didn't contact her via phone, it was decided that she dial my number.

Nancy: the Hen-Lady is a foreigner living in Germany, I shall not name the country from whence she comes, but she said that the wedding photogs in her country are more creative as compared to those in Germany, implying that German photogs are more of traditionalists. She is having a town hall wedding here, then she will return to her country and have a church wedding there. She also praised the wedding photo albums created in her country, heaven knows what she thought when she leafed through my album, which is quite basic.

D.

[arthuryeo]

>Dave, the problem with that answer is that you then have to book a fictious job or go fishing. If she wants to be angry, she may have a friend call a week later and ask about the date. You're in trouble if you say you're available.

 

I really don't see how the chemsitry between the bride & you could go so bad unless you dwell on it. I see business as business unless you foresee her being a potential trouble-maker in violating your contract and blowing things out of proportion, then simply send them an email and say you do not wish to proceed with the contract based on some vague reasons. The reasons are *not* important but you need to be crystal clear you are pulling out. There's nothing wrong on pulling out from a initial meeting before the contract is signed.

 

I do not think that pulling out before a contract should be done often though or you are going to earn a reputation for being a pain to work with. So, pull out carefully after identifying a clear trouble-maker.

[catherine_oostdyk]

I'd pass if there was a bad vibe. I'd hate to have a bride 'henpecking' at me during the wedding =) I know a photographer that actually had a fight that broke out at the reception. Apparently the grooms friends and family didn't really like the bride =O

 

btw, I lived in Darmstadt as a kid!

[ni_gentry]

It's hard to say without actually knowing/meeting this couple. If they are really, really

annoying then yes it's probably best to just pass. You don't have to make up an excuse.

You don't "owe" them a reason... <p>

BUT, from what you describe (initially anyway, as I didn't read every single post above)... it

doesn't sound all that bad. Maybe something about them threw up a huge red flag, but I

don't see it. <p>

You have to understand that you're not always going to get the perfect client or those

couples that are all happy and smiling and patting you on the back. Dealing with the good

and the bad is part of business. You can try to avoid the bad, but it seems like you might

be overblowing this particular situation. Also, there aren't too many professions out there

(that I can think of offhand) where the professional would turn away a client because the

wife is a "henpecker".

[ni_gentry]

Also..... Obviously it's a lot easier to turn away a job when you are a part-timer, which it

seems you are. So don't shoot it and pass it on to someone who is willing to handle it.

[duchan]

Catherine: been a guest at more weddings than I shot, no fights, no harsh words, not even when the guests where inebriated and eventually ventured into the realm of absolute forgetfulness. I hope you retained fine memories of Darmstadt - were you old enough to remember? Ni: I don't want to blow this situation way out of proportion, I've just never been confronted with such an issue. Rest: thanks all, you've been great, too. I'm bailing out of shooting her wedding, she has six days to find another photog...

Greetings,

D.